RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,201
Posts: 5,346,225
Members: 24,604
Currently online: 494
Newest member: LanCo96

TrekToday headlines

Funko Mini Spock
By: T'Bonz on Jul 23

IDW Publishing Comic Preview
By: T'Bonz on Jul 23

A Baby For Saldana
By: T'Bonz on Jul 23

Klingon Beer Arrives In The US
By: T'Bonz on Jul 22

Star Trek: Prelude To Axanar
By: T'Bonz on Jul 22

Abrams Announces Star Wars: Force For Change Sweepstakes
By: T'Bonz on Jul 22

New Funko Trek Figure
By: T'Bonz on Jul 21

Saldana As A Role Model
By: T'Bonz on Jul 21

San Diego Comic-Con Trek Fan Guide
By: T'Bonz on Jul 21

Cumberbatch As Turing
By: T'Bonz on Jul 21


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Misc. Star Trek > Trek Literature

Trek Literature "...Good words. That's where ideas begin."

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 25 2008, 10:20 PM   #151
Baerbel Haddrell
Commodore
 
Baerbel Haddrell's Avatar
 
Location: GB
Re: Have Star Trek Writers Ever Tried to Create an Unlikable Character

Interesting. My mother grew up in a very rural part of Germany in which a dialect called Plattdeutsch was still spoken. She told me when they got American visitors they understood a lot.

When I was a child we were on holiday in Bavaria once and I noticed that for me who grew up with Hochdeutsch (which is the usual German) understanding Bavarian German is even more difficult than Plattdeutsch.
__________________
Bleach (Ichigo to Muramasa) "We all make mistakes. You just have to accept what happened and fix what you can."
Baerbel Haddrell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 25 2008, 11:32 PM   #152
Nerys Ghemor
Vice Admiral
 
Nerys Ghemor's Avatar
 
Location: Cardăsa Terăm--Nerys Ghemor
Re: Have Star Trek Writers Ever Tried to Create an Unlikable Character

Xeris wrote: View Post
Rosalind wrote: View Post
TheAlmanac wrote: View Post
"Arabic" is a problematic term itself, since (much like "Chinese") not all languages in that family are mutually intelligible, and I (at least) am one of the people who has trouble thinking of dialects as part of the same language if they can't understand each other.
ah, but the written language is the same so we can understand each other.

seriously though, sometimes there's more in common between English and German than some of the chinese dialects.
Because English is derived from Old High German, so that would make sense
Sorry to be nitpicky, but languages (both real and created) are a hobby of mine. English diverged from the rest of the Germanic language group earlier than that. By the time Old High German existed, Old English was already its own well-defined language.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Germani...ges#Diachronic

Language shown in a row with each other existed at the same time as each other. Reading from top to bottom, history moves forward.
__________________
Are you a Cardassian fan, citizen? Prove your loyalty--check out my fanfic universe, Star Trek: Sigils and Unions. Or keep the faith on my AU Cardassia, Sigils and Unions: Catacombs of Oralius!
Nerys Ghemor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 26 2008, 10:31 AM   #153
BrotherBenny
Rear Admiral
 
BrotherBenny's Avatar
 
Location: BrotherBenny
View BrotherBenny's Twitter Profile Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to BrotherBenny Send a message via Yahoo to BrotherBenny
Re: Have Star Trek Writers Ever Tried to Create an Unlikable Character

That table is somewhat simplistic in nature and doesn't take into account numerous factors, chief among which is the fact that languages do not diverge at set points but in a continual fashion. Old High German and Old English are much closer than a simple language table would have you think. I spent half a semester on a paper on this very subject. I'm not going to go into it in much depth now, but I will say that many words in Old English did not actually evolve from the South Germanic language group itself, but from the slightly newer and diverging Old High German. We sent some words over there as well which have since fallen into the archaic category, but English doesn't tend to drop words from the language, it just adds new ones.

Language as we all know is fluid and English itself is comprised mainly from the South Germanic languages, but as Old English evolved into Middle English, we were conquered several times and adopted Roman words, Greek-Latinate words, French words, and so on. A simple trawl through the dictionary today will show you that very few words from Old/Middle English are actually still used in everyday speech - except those created by Shakespeare, we've kept those.

But we diverge from the OP. I would have to say that of all the hundred and twenty or so ST books I've read, the character I dislike most of all is Jellico. I didn't like him on screen and I haven't liked him in print.
__________________
"Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined." - Henry David Thoreau

My blog / My crime stories
BrotherBenny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 26 2008, 03:47 PM   #154
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Have Star Trek Writers Ever Tried to Create an Unlikable Character

Xeris wrote: View Post
A simple trawl through the dictionary today will show you that very few words from Old/Middle English are actually still used in everyday speech - except those created by Shakespeare, we've kept those.
Shakespeare wasn't Middle English. The language spoken (and written) during the Elizabethan era was Early Modern English.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 26 2008, 04:39 PM   #155
BrotherBenny
Rear Admiral
 
BrotherBenny's Avatar
 
Location: BrotherBenny
View BrotherBenny's Twitter Profile Send a message via Windows Live Messenger to BrotherBenny Send a message via Yahoo to BrotherBenny
Re: Have Star Trek Writers Ever Tried to Create an Unlikable Character

Christopher wrote: View Post
Xeris wrote: View Post
A simple trawl through the dictionary today will show you that very few words from Old/Middle English are actually still used in everyday speech - except those created by Shakespeare, we've kept those.
Shakespeare wasn't Middle English. The language spoken (and written) during the Elizabethan era was Early Modern English.
As I posted above, language is fluid, but linguistic historians (or whatever the name du jour is) like categories. Early Modern English is a misnomer, and used primarily to teach people about the transition, but it has no place in the real world.
__________________
"Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined." - Henry David Thoreau

My blog / My crime stories
BrotherBenny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 26 2008, 04:53 PM   #156
Dayton3
Admiral
 
Location: Monticello, AR. United States of America
Re: Have Star Trek Writers Ever Tried to Create an Unlikable Character

How did my thread evolve into something about languages?
Dayton3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 26 2008, 05:00 PM   #157
Dayton Ward
Word Pusher
 
Dayton Ward's Avatar
 
View Dayton Ward's Twitter Profile
Re: Have Star Trek Writers Ever Tried to Create an Unlikable Character

^ You weren't here to remind folks how wrong they were about everything.
__________________
www.daytonward.com

"tlhingAn HoL, Mother F*cker! Do you speak it?!"
Dayton Ward is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 26 2008, 05:40 PM   #158
Dayton3
Admiral
 
Location: Monticello, AR. United States of America
Re: Have Star Trek Writers Ever Tried to Create an Unlikable Character

Dayton Ward wrote: View Post
^ You weren't here to remind folks how wrong they were about everything.
Clearly an oversight on my part.
Dayton3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 26 2008, 06:14 PM   #159
JAG
Vice Admiral
 
JAG's Avatar
 
Location: JAG
Re: Have Star Trek Writers Ever Tried to Create an Unlikable Character

Dayton Ward wrote: View Post
^ You weren't here to remind folks how wrong they were about everything.


Threads in Treklit ebb and flow like the Ganges.
__________________
But... we're Star Trek fans. As logic is to Vulcans, as honour to Klingons, so is griping on the Internet to us.....Trent Roman
JAG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 26 2008, 06:23 PM   #160
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Have Star Trek Writers Ever Tried to Create an Unlikable Character

Xeris wrote: View Post
As I posted above, language is fluid, but linguistic historians (or whatever the name du jour is) like categories. Early Modern English is a misnomer, and used primarily to teach people about the transition, but it has no place in the real world.
But you agree that there was a transition, that the language of Shakespeare was a part of the evolution of the language we know as Modern English. Indeed, Shakespeare coined or codified more of the vocabulary of Modern English than any other single writer (although the King James Bible was no doubt highly influential too). Granted the obvious fact that language is fluid and categories inexact conveniences, I stand by the assertion that if you have to use a category label, "Modern English" is more appropriate for Shakespeare than "Middle English."
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 26 2008, 06:36 PM   #161
Andrew Harris
Writer
 
Andrew Harris's Avatar
 
Location: San Diego
Send a message via AIM to Andrew Harris
Re: Have Star Trek Writers Ever Tried to Create an Unlikable Character

[quote=Christopher;1991741]
Xeris wrote: View Post
Indeed, Shakespeare coined or codified more of the vocabulary of Modern English than any other single writer (although the King James Bible was no doubt highly influential too).
Yeah, but wasn't the King James Bible using outdated language, even for its own time? I'm not saying it was, just that I recall.
__________________
Andrew Steven Harris
Blog: http://andrewstevenharris.wordpress.com
AIM/Twitter: XAndrewHarrisX
Andrew Harris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 26 2008, 06:48 PM   #162
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Have Star Trek Writers Ever Tried to Create an Unlikable Character

Yeah, it did do that deliberately to some extent. But I figure that the KJV was probably the main book used to teach literacy to a lot of English-speaking people in the 17th century or so, thus it stands to reason that it would've been pretty influential.

In fact, the KJV was deliberately given a very limited and basic vocabulary, only about 5000 words aside from proper names, IIRC, so that it would be accessible to people without a formal education. So on second thought, maybe it didn't contribute that much. Which is an interesting contrast with Shakespeare, whose works have the largest vocabulary of any single English author's ouvre.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 26 2008, 07:10 PM   #163
KRAD
Keith R.A. DeCandido
 
KRAD's Avatar
 
Location: New York City
View KRAD's Twitter Profile
Re: Have Star Trek Writers Ever Tried to Create an Unlikable Character

Christopher wrote: View Post
Which is an interesting contrast with Shakespeare, whose works have the largest vocabulary of any single English author's ouvre.
It's spelled "oeuvre." It's French.




("Now his oeuvre's in the Louvre, and he's Paul Cezanne....")
__________________
Keith R.A. DeCandido
Blog | Facebook | Twitter

"Even when you turn your back, you're facing something."
KRAD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 26 2008, 07:23 PM   #164
Christopher
Writer
 
Christopher's Avatar
 
Re: Have Star Trek Writers Ever Tried to Create an Unlikable Character

I knew that... Oeups.
__________________
Christopher L. Bennett Homepage -- Site update 4/8/14 including annotations for Rise of the Federation: Tower of Babel

Written Worlds -- My blog
Christopher is online now   Reply With Quote
Old August 26 2008, 07:27 PM   #165
Andrew Harris
Writer
 
Andrew Harris's Avatar
 
Location: San Diego
Send a message via AIM to Andrew Harris
Re: Have Star Trek Writers Ever Tried to Create an Unlikable Character

KRAD wrote: View Post

("Now his oeuvre's in the Louvre, and he's Paul Cezanne....")
Oh, wow. There's like three levels of irony there. Well done, Keith.
__________________
Andrew Steven Harris
Blog: http://andrewstevenharris.wordpress.com
AIM/Twitter: XAndrewHarrisX
Andrew Harris is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
books, characters

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 03:53 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.