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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Deep Space Nine

Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old August 19 2008, 02:01 PM   #16
Deckerd
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Re: The changelings

I was pointing out that your 'it's not a matter of time' comment was daft.
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Old August 19 2008, 02:05 PM   #17
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Re: The changelings

Deckerd wrote: View Post
I've often wondered why their skills were always supposed to be so much better than Odo's. He had plenty of time to hone his appearance and since he could easily imitate other complex shapes it seems unrealistic that he never actually developed throughout the whole series.
Most of the "complex shapes" amounted to solid, unmoving stuff though - once he became a rock, or a metal frame, or a bag, he only had to hold the shape. Faces also have to move in certain ways - he could probably have made a human "mask", but it would have been revealed as such almost immediately outside of still photos/holos.

Timo wrote: View Post
But by that time, he had been stimulated and educated. "Children of Time" comes not only a great many years after "The Search", but also after Odo's to-Solid-and-back experience, and after many interactions with skilled Founders.
Actually, I wonder why he never had surgery during his "solid" experience to look like a Bajoran (or human). Outside of the show, the DS9 companion made it clear that they thought he wouldn't come across as Odo any more if they lost "the face", but since the Founders left it that way as a punishment in-show...
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Old August 19 2008, 02:18 PM   #18
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Re: The changelings

I was pointing out that your 'it's not a matter of time' comment was daft.
But it wouldn't be. Without contact with the Founders, odds are that Odo would not have learned to shapeshift properly even if given centuries. He was stunned and delighted to learn what was possible for the likes of him in "The Search"; had he not shaken hands with a Founder, he would never even have dreamed of such things.

Actually, I wonder why he never had surgery during his "solid" experience to look like a Bajoran (or human).
Why would he have found any other face preferable to the one he had? He respectfully declined in "Apocalypse Rising" already, perhaps choosing to bear the intended shame with honor and courage, perhaps finding the whole idea of this being "intended shame" ridiculous to begin with.

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Old August 19 2008, 02:28 PM   #19
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Re: The changelings

SoM wrote: View Post
Most of the "complex shapes" amounted to solid, unmoving stuff though - once he became a rock, or a metal frame, or a bag, he only had to hold the shape. Faces also have to move in certain ways - he could probably have made a human "mask", but it would have been revealed as such almost immediately outside of still photos/holos.
Did he not turn himself into a flying hawk at one point? I would say that took a fairly high level of skill.
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Old August 19 2008, 03:08 PM   #20
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Re: The changelings

Guys, I don't often say this, but it's a TV show. In real life, a shapeshifter who could perfecly imitate a mouse, hawk etc. would have no trouble producing a realistic face. Also in the 24th century an android could be made to look almost if not completely human ( skintone and eyecolour at least could be completely matched). But because it's a show these characters are deliberately made to look alien.
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Old August 19 2008, 03:14 PM   #21
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Re: The changelings

Sure, but the question here is were the show's producers being sloppy or consistent?
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Old August 20 2008, 07:39 AM   #22
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Re: The changelings

I'd say both. Sloppy, perhaps, in not coming up with a completely watertight reason for Odo's face, but extremely consistent with sticking to what they did come up with...

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Old August 20 2008, 07:57 AM   #23
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Re: The changelings

Timo wrote: View Post
But it wouldn't be. Without contact with the Founders, odds are that Odo would not have learned to shapeshift properly even if given centuries. He was stunned and delighted to learn what was possible for the likes of him in "The Search"; had he not shaken hands with a Founder, he would never even have dreamed of such things.
What about Laas then? He apparently never came into contact with the Founders, and didn't even know much about them until he met Odo, yet he was capable of taking shapes which Odo had apparently never even considered, and all through his own periods of trial and error. I agree that not knowing the Founders would reduce Odo's potential for growth (no pun intended ), but I'm not sure the odds would be so high against him.
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Old August 22 2008, 10:11 PM   #24
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Re: The changelings

Unicron wrote: View Post
What about Laas then? He apparently never came into contact with the Founders, and didn't even know much about them until he met Odo, yet he was capable of taking shapes which Odo had apparently never even considered, and all through his own periods of trial and error. I agree that not knowing the Founders would reduce Odo's potential for growth (no pun intended ), but I'm not sure the odds would be so high against him.
I believe Laas became aware of what he was years (eons?) before Odo knew. If you watch Children of Time you'll see that Odo is a much better shapeshifter then.
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Old August 23 2008, 03:02 AM   #25
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Re: The changelings

I agree. I was responding to Timo's suggestion that both Laas and Odo wouldn't have been able to attain this level of existence without coming into contact with the Dominion.
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Old August 24 2008, 01:25 AM   #26
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Re: The changelings

Navaros wrote: View Post
There isn't really any good explanation for this. TPTB simply decided to dumb the show down so that LCD viewers wouldn't get 'confused' () by seeing changelings with different appearances. There is no in-show explanation that makes any sense. Some fans try to use the excuse "they were trying to make Odo feel more comfortable so they copied him", but really that makes no sense at all considering that they looked like Odo when he was nowhere around.

Ultimately there is nothing that can be done with this point other than chalking it up to a major series fubar that detracts from the integrity of the show.
I agree almost completely. I'm going to call it a minor fubar.
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Old August 25 2008, 12:59 AM   #27
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Re: The changelings

I'm more confused as to why they all spoke English.

Universal translator, my ass.
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