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Old August 21 2008, 07:02 PM   #16
Timo
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Re: Do Romulans Feel?

Spock actually advises Kirk to strike first in Balance of Terror based on the probability that the Romulans are an offshoot of the Vulcans from a more violent past.
He's a bit more circumspect than that. He first says that Vulcan had a violent colonization period in the past, because Vulcans are violent by nature. He then says "if Romulans retain this martial philosophy...". The use of "retain" seems to mean that Spock acknowledges the Romulans are descendants of Vulcans, something confirmed in many other places later on. But nothing indicates that retention of violence would have been the reason Romulans departed Vulcan. Indeed, Spock's reference to "colonization period" may refer to interstellar colonization performed by violent Vulcans, long before a rift developed between them and the Romulans.

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Old August 21 2008, 11:37 PM   #17
Alidar Jarok
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Re: Do Romulans Feel?

Timo wrote: View Post
Incidentally, Memory Alpha claims Surak's demise was part of the final battle where the raptor folks supposedly lost. But the actual phrasing suggests that Surak died before that battle. Days before? Years before? Decades before? Centuries before? Everything is possible.
There's a pseudo-religious aspect of the way Surak's teachings have been presented that lead me to believe that, at least dramatically speaking, it makes more sense for Surak to die before his followers win. By the time they win, the teachings have been corrupted (I personally don't believe Surak would have even condoned fighting those who opposed to).

Diane Duane's novels suggest Surak died in an attempt to mediate peace, far away from home and thus supposedly far away from Mount Seleya. The flashbacks from ENT "The Awakening" don't necessarily contradict this claim, as Surak is shown dying of radiation poisoning. He may have been poisoned during his diplomatic visit, only to die at return to his ancestral lands.
I like this idea a lot. It fits with the nature of Surak (both when originally seen and in Enterprise). He's a man that abhors all violence and I think, in Enterprise, he was appalled at the way his Awakening had been used for more bloodshed. Although, in the end, I do think that those who opposed his teachings chose exile and the violence of Vulcan did come to an end (those who remained did choose a more pacifistic, logical society than that which had existed before him).

Right now, the writers seem to try to mostly imply that the Romulans left because of Surak and his logic movement, but don't outright say it.
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Old August 22 2008, 01:58 AM   #18
Temis the Vorta
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Re: Do Romulans Feel?

Spock actually advises Kirk to strike first in Balance of Terror based on the probability that the Romulans are an offshoot of the Vulcans from a more violent past.
Yeah, fanon or no, there are elements from TOS and ENT that strongly suggest that the fanon assumption about Surak and the Romulans is supposed to be part of the backstory. It all fits together nicely.

The Romulans objected to Surak's logic-fetish solution to what ailed Vulcan society, so they left. But they still had to come up with a solution of their own.
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Old August 22 2008, 03:50 AM   #19
OneBuckFilms
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Re: Do Romulans Feel?

I think it likely that the Romulans, and much of their culture are pretty much how the Vulcans were before Surak.

Surak, in many ways, is likely similar to Jesus in that he promoted peace among a violent society (Roman=Romulan).

Instead of Christianity, there is Logic and IDIC.

And just like Christianity, Vulcan still has shades of it's "pagan" ways (rituals, ceremony and some traditions) scattered throughout it's past.
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Old August 22 2008, 04:24 AM   #20
R’cher
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Re: Do Romulans Feel?

The Vulcans do have emotions. They choose to suppress them. The Romulans chose to leave Vulcan around 2,000 years ago as a way to separate themselves from the Vulcan reformation of the pursuit of logic and the suppression of emotion.

I'm sure if a Romulan wanted to, he could but as Troi told Picard in "The Neutral Zone", Romulans can be passionate one moment and calm the next [sic].
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Old August 23 2008, 06:37 AM   #21
Temis the Vorta
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Re: Do Romulans Feel?

I think it likely that the Romulans, and much of their culture are pretty much how the Vulcans were before Surak.
But it's implied that Surak saved Vulcans from a disastrous situation, where they were at each others' throats. Romulans seem to have a far more functional society than that. They couldn't be a powerful empire otherwise.

I think Romulans are more like the original Vulcans than Vulcans are, but that they've found their own accommodation with their personality issues, without needing Surak's solution.
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Old August 23 2008, 06:58 AM   #22
Timo
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Re: Do Romulans Feel?

...Although the solution might have been as simple as "move to a planet so rich in resources that you can stop fighting over them, at least for the first couple of millennia".

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