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Deep Space Nine What We Left Behind, we will always have here.

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Old August 19 2008, 11:24 PM   #16
Cyke101
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Re: Borg or Dominion??

I'm going to have to go with the Borg here. Even if they can't assimilate, they've still got massive numbers and firepower on their side. One Cube is enough to engage a good chunk of Starfleet for three days, and that's just a standard Cube, not an Armored Cube. Factor in how many vessels the Borg are bound to have in their fleet, and you've suddenly got a force that's both unstoppable and immovable.

However, it is important to note that the Federation's trusty defense against the Borg --remodulating shield harmonics-- were useless against the Dominion. I'd love to see how that plays out.
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Old August 20 2008, 12:33 AM   #17
LutherSloan
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Re: Borg or Dominion??

I say the Borg would have the upper hand for awhile. The only problem is that I don't believe the Founders can be assimilated, although the Jem'Hadar can. The Borg would have a major problem figuring out the Dominion's secrets if they can't assimilate a Founder, since the Vorta only know so much.

However, Jem'Hadar Borg drones would be UNSTOPPABLE. Although I doubt the Borg would use their shrouding ability, since they have never used cloaking devices. There is also the possibility that the Dominion could eventually modify future Jem'Hadar warriors to be resistant to assimilation.

Both sides have the same ability to easily replenish their supply of soldiers, with the Borg just needing to assimilate some race along the way, and the Dominion just needing to plug in the 'ol cloner.

One thing that might backfire on the Dominion, however, would be if the Borg captured a Dominion cloning facility. That would potentially give them a big advantage (see Star Trek Armada).
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Old August 20 2008, 02:57 AM   #18
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Re: Borg or Dominion??

Or they could just transport every drone through a two-way mirror and double their population count every few seconds.

We know that it would work because it's what happened with Riker.

Continuity's a bitch, huh?
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Old August 20 2008, 03:59 PM   #19
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Re: Borg or Dominion??

Well thank you all for your reply's

I have read all of them and you all came up with good points about Borg and Dominion but i still think that the Borg will win at the end because they will simply adapted too quickly to Dominion technology and start to assimilate Jem'Hadar soldiers rapidly and the founders would be left with no Jem'Hadar to command. I know the Dominion breed Jem'Hadar quicker then the Federation can destroy them (i wonder who said that) but eventually the Borg will overwhelm the Dominion.
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Old August 20 2008, 08:38 PM   #20
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Re: Borg or Dominion??

Temis the Vorta wrote: View Post
The Doms would win. Changelings are immune to assimilation. Plus the Doms are more flexible and creative in their thinking.
Creative in their thinking perhaps, but it's still questionable if Changelings are immune to assimilation ... which ultimately doesn't make a difference because the Borg could in that case decide to exterminate the Changelings instead of assimilating them (if it's not viable).

The Feds had to send a fleet after a single cube.
If the Borg send 50 cubes to Dominion territory, they're dead.
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Old August 20 2008, 11:46 PM   #21
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Re: Borg or Dominion??

Photon wrote: View Post
It depends:

TNG Borg win. May lose a Cube or 2 but win goin' away.

Voyager Borgominion wins in a route. Perhaps the Dominion could fight a proxy war by hiring out the Bajorans and Skreeeeeeeeeans to fight the Borg.

True, that.... and a Tantulus Device.
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Old August 21 2008, 11:26 PM   #22
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Re: Borg or Dominion??

Does anyone find it odd that Starfleet happens to moblize a fleet to take Torros and combat the pending Dominion invasion of 2373 AND repel the Borg incursion of Sector 001 AT THE SAME TIME?

Surely the Dominion was aware of the Borg's presence and picked such a ripe time to attack. I theorize their heads have bumped before, and the Dominion is still standing :-D!
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Old August 22 2008, 03:44 AM   #23
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Re: Borg or Dominion??

Sisko4Life wrote: View Post
Does anyone find it odd that Starfleet happens to moblize a fleet to take Torros and combat the pending Dominion invasion of 2373 AND repel the Borg incursion of Sector 001 AT THE SAME TIME?

Surely the Dominion was aware of the Borg's presence and picked such a ripe time to attack. I theorize their heads have bumped before, and the Dominion is still standing :-D!
Are you talking about the battle in Call to Arms? If so, Sisko mentions the Borg attack in Blaze of Glory, an episode that's well before Call to Arms. So no, they didn't do it at the same time. If you go by stardate, then First Contact is still three episodes before the Torros.

Rough estimates for the Battle of Sector 001 say Starfleet battled the Borg (one ship!) for days. That was one vessel. The battle of Torros couldn't have lasted more than a day (or else the Dominion would've sent reinforcements).

Of course, perhaps Starfleet was better suited to fight the Borg because the Dominion had them at high alert for so long, giving Starfleet enough time to draw a huge number of their combat-ready ships.
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Old August 22 2008, 04:44 AM   #24
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Re: Borg or Dominion??

Sisko4Life wrote: View Post
Does anyone find it odd that Starfleet happens to moblize a fleet to take Torros and combat the pending Dominion invasion of 2373 AND repel the Borg incursion of Sector 001 AT THE SAME TIME?

Surely the Dominion was aware of the Borg's presence and picked such a ripe time to attack. I theorize their heads have bumped before, and the Dominion is still standing :-D!
As pointed out above they didn't happen at the same time. Plus Starfleet is large enough and powerful enough that it can defend an empire 8,000ly wide so it should be able to fight off a lone attack and then compete in a wider war.

Also the Dominion War didn't start at the Dominion's choosing, it was forced onto them by the Federation when they mined the wormhole.
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Old August 22 2008, 09:05 AM   #25
Sisko4Life
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Re: Borg or Dominion??

Plus Starfleet is large enough and powerful enough that it can defend an empire 8,000ly wide
Starfleet isn't 8,000 light years wide... that would take much too long for ships to get anywhere. That figure is 8,000 cubic light years... as 200 X 200 X 200. It makes more sense that way, as DS9 was on the outskirts, and the core was only 50 light years away.

I know the war didn't start at the same time as the Borg invasion, but the pact with Cardassia in "By Inferno's Light" was before the Borg "incident" so they knew it was coming.
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Old August 22 2008, 05:17 PM   #26
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Re: Borg or Dominion??

Starfleet isn't 8,000 light years wide... that would take much too long for ships to get anywhere. That figure is 8,000 cubic light years... as 200 X 200 X 200. It makes more sense that way, as DS9 was on the outskirts, and the core was only 50 light years away.

I know the war didn't start at the same time as the Borg invasion, but the pact with Cardassia in "By Inferno's Light" was before the Borg "incident" so they knew it was coming.
200 cubed is way more then 8,000. One sector is 20 x 20 x 20 and that is 8,000 cubic light years.

Picard says something to the effect that the Federation stretched across 8,000 light years, which doesn't necessarily mean it is a perfect sphere with an 8,000 light year diameter but could just be the furthest distance between two Federation systems.

That's why you'd need a lot of starships to cover that with the current (2370s) state of ftl technology, which was the point I was getting at.

Nothing wrong with that and the location of DS9 because it was still at the edge (maybe beyond his it was in Bajoran space) of the Federation since it was on the cusp of the Cardassian Union.

How could the Dominion possibly know the Borg were going to attack the Federation when they did? Plus according to Deep Space 9, the attack occurred before the Dominion entered the Alpha Quadrant.

I prefer that then the later date of First Contact as it is easier to believe that they would pull the Defiant away from DS9 before the Dominion gained their foothold in the Alpha Quadrant. Then again a later date excuses the Enterprise out of the early parts of the war due to the damage it received in the battle and having to de-Borg half the ship.

Last edited by Jono; August 22 2008 at 05:41 PM.
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Old August 22 2008, 06:42 PM   #27
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Re: Borg or Dominion??

A small fleet of borg is easily defeated by the dominion

if the borg sent everything and the kitchen sink at the dominion, we would see assimilated vorta
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Old August 22 2008, 09:57 PM   #28
Sisko4Life
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Re: Borg or Dominion??

200 cubed is way more then 8,000. One sector is 20 x 20 x 20 and that is 8,000 cubic light years.

Picard says something to the effect that the Federation stretched across 8,000 light years, which doesn't necessarily mean it is a perfect sphere with an 8,000 light year diameter but could just be the furthest distance between two Federation systems.
Hmmm, your right... miscalc lol. I should make a seperate discussion about that. I highly doubt the Federation was 8,000 light years in diameter. That would take a ship (in Voyager's terms) 8 years to travel from one border to the other... that seems just too far and it would be impossible to mobilize so many ships and bring them to the front lines if it was that large. I always thought picard was speaking in some volume or area terminology since it says "spread accross" which is left open to interpretation. But DS9 and TNG favor a smaller Federation model. The USS Valiant's mission was to circumnavigate the Federation in 3 months.... yeah 8,000 light years just to go through it? I doubt it.
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Old August 23 2008, 02:16 AM   #29
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Re: Borg or Dominion??

You can doubt it all you want. That doesn't make it any less true.
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Old August 23 2008, 02:58 AM   #30
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Re: Borg or Dominion??

Borg are over-rated..if they have 'millions of ships' then why havent they taken over the galaxy yet? Because they are overated...DOMINION scientist are equal to federation and they would, as stated above, beat the Borg with some kind of virus..if a second rate engineer like Geordi and Wesley could take down the Borg, why not the Dominion?

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