Read & Reread "Greater Than The Sum"- My Opinion (Spoilers)

[Christopher]

LightningStorm wrote:

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And as for the part still on the Rhea, I too (at first) took that exchange to mean there was some sort of affair going on with her commanding officer.

I am totally surprised by that. I was going for one friend plying another friend with comically exaggerated flattery and sweet talk to extract a favor. It never occurred to me that it might be interpreted as flirtatious in any way.

[Dayton3]

Christopher wrote:

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I am totally surprised by that. I was going for one friend plying another friend with comically exaggerated flattery and sweet talk to extract a favor. It never occurred to me that it might be interpreted as flirtatious in any way.

It does appear that way when you look at the total character in context.

[Dayton3]

[quote=Dayton Ward;1968789]

Don't get too worked up about it. He goes through some variation of this cycle every year or so. He didn't do it last year, and it screwed up my whole late summer/early fall lawn care schedule, so, personally, I'm glad he's back on the job.
quote]

I do not know what you are talking about.

I had a series of posts a couple of years ago where I openly disagreed with writers and editors of Star Trek who were maintaining there was no profitable market for Star Trek technical manuals and similiar publications.

I maintained that they could not know that without actually publishing something.

The reaction I got from many was "My god! He is disagreeing with writers!! People who produce Star Trek material FOR MONEY are here blessing us with their presence, and he has the gall to disagree with them!! Shut him up before the writers get irritated and refuse to post here anymore!!.

[Thrawn]

Dayton3 wrote:

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I do not know what you are talking about.

I had a series of posts a couple of years ago where I openly disagreed with writers and editors of Star Trek who were maintaining there was no profitable market for Star Trek technical manuals and similiar publications.

I maintained that they could not know that without actually publishing something.

The reaction I got from many was "My god! He is disagreeing with writers!! People who produce Star Trek material FOR MONEY are here blessing us with their presence, and he has the gall to disagree with them!! Shut him up before the writers get irritated and refuse to post here anymore!!.

Publishing isn't magic. They've had sales figures of technical manuals and similar publications for years, and it probably wasn't hard to see the downward trend. Mostly, I think people were disagreeing with you because you were wrong.

But you never answered my question. If you haven't really enjoyed a Star Trek book in 13 years, why do you still care enough to come on here and post about them? Very few people involved with writing or editing the books back then are still on the team, and the philosophy, boundaries, continuity, and scope of the novels are all rather different.

[Emh]

This side discussion about Dayton3 and his past posting history is completely irrelevant to this thread. Get back on topic.

[William Leisner]

Christopher wrote:

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I am totally surprised by that. I was going for one friend plying another friend with comically exaggerated flattery and sweet talk to extract a favor. It never occurred to me that it might be interpreted as flirtatious in any way.

Apparently, the Trek Lit Gay Agenda had finally succeeded!!

[Allyn Gibson]

Christopher wrote:

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I am totally surprised by that. I was going for one friend plying another friend with comically exaggerated flattery and sweet talk to extract a favor. It never occurred to me that it might be interpreted as flirtatious in any way.

Christopher, I've thought about it, since you said yesterday that, no, it wasn't supposed to have been interpreted that way.

And I think the reason I thought that (and I can't speak for anyone else), is that Trys flirting with Dawn Blair is one of the very first things we see her do. There was no reason, as a reader, for me to not take it seriously, since Blair does seem to take it seriously (the flirting works on her, after all) and I hadn't seen yet the extent of Trys' personality. There was never any reason for me not to think that Trys was bisexual, probably into multiple simultaneous relationships.

Now, I'm like, "Oh, you weren't suggesting that," and I'm slightly crushed.

I'm not criticizing. I'm just trying to think through why I thought that about Trys two weeks ago when I read the book.

[tenmei]

I didn't take that scene as construing an unseen Blair/T'Rys relationship, to be honest. I 'flirt' like that with some of my hetero male friends and it doesn't mean anything.

[Christopher]

Allyn Gibson wrote:

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And I think the reason I thought that (and I can't speak for anyone else), is that Trys flirting with Dawn Blair is one of the very first things we see her do. There was no reason, as a reader, for me to not take it seriously, since Blair does seem to take it seriously (the flirting works on her, after all) and I hadn't seen yet the extent of Trys' personality.

See, but that's just it. I didn't intend it to be "flirting" in any sense, whether serious or facetious. It was meant to be flattery, not flirtation. I mean, it's a pretty standard cultural trope for person A to lavish person B with obsequious flattery before asking them for a favor. "My, boss, you look really sharp today! That's a really great tie! By the way, can I have a raise?" When people see, say, Dagwood buttering up Mr. Dithers like that, I don't think many people would read that as flirtation. The context of this scene was that Trys was trying to get out of a boring duty assignment, so I thought it would be clear that her flattery of Dawn was in service of that goal.

Also, at least in our culture, women are generally more open than men about expressing affection in entirely platonic contexts. When a woman compliments another woman or expresses how much she cares for that woman, it doesn't automatically imply anything sexual or romantic as it probably would if a man in our culture said such things. Since the participants in the scene were two women, it never even occurred to me that there was anything flirtatious about what Trys said.

[JAG]

I am with Allyn on this one. I thought she was flirting as well, probably because it was the first thing we saw her do. Her actions past that reinforced the thought for me. I understand what you are saying now as to what she was doing. It did not come across that way in the context of the book though. (to me at least)

[C.E. Evans]

I just thought she was just being an awfully bad suck up, myself.


But then what is intended and what is perceived can vary...

[ATimson]

Christopher wrote:

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See, but that's just it. I didn't intend it to be "flirting" in any sense, whether serious or facetious. It was meant to be flattery, not flirtation.

Flattery is one thing, but I think that "O commander of my heart" is rather hard to construe as such...

[Christopher]

^^I figured that line was so ridiculously broad that no one could possibly think it was meant in earnest.

[tenmei]

I thought it was a subtle tongue in cheek reference to the Walt Whitman poem (O Captain! My Captain!), at first, so that shows how completely wrong I read the line.

[Sisko_is_my_captain]

Christopher wrote:

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Actually I think she's quite attractively immature.

Christopher wrote:

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There are other kinds of action.

Baum chicka baum baum. Oh yeah.


(I'm sorry; I couldn't resist.)