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The Next Generation All Good Things come to an end...but not here.

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Old August 11 2008, 12:10 AM   #16
The Old Mixer
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Re: No respect for the character of Scotty in "Relics"?

THEY SAVED McCOY'S BRAIN!!!!!!!
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Old August 11 2008, 12:19 AM   #17
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Re: No respect for the character of Scotty in "Relics"?

The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
THEY SAVED McCOY'S BRAIN!!!!!!!
BRAIN AND BRAIN! WHAT IS BRAIN?!?
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Old August 11 2008, 12:39 AM   #18
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Re: No respect for the character of Scotty in "Relics"?

Sheliak wrote: View Post
Who built the Dyson Sphere?
is that a trick question?
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Old August 11 2008, 04:00 AM   #19
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Re: No respect for the character of Scotty in "Relics"?

Scotty was just another engineering in a long line of engineers throughout Starfleet's history. He's sepcail to "us" as fans but in the universe of Trek he's just another engineer and nothing extra-ordinary.

I, kind-of, liked how it was suggestes Scotty was less "miracle worker" than he was "a good manipulator." It's ludicrous to think that even the very best engineer can "break the laws of physics" and make impossible things happen or things happen in much shorter time. Makes pretty good sense that Scotty fudged his talents here and there some. That's just work-place politics that I'm sure we all do from time to time.

But I'll never agree that what Geordi does in this episode is wrong. Geordi was very patient with Scotty and Scotty pushed himself onto Geordi too far.

When Geordi first meets Scotty he's genuinely impressed with the man and seems willing to talk with him after the trip to sickbay Geordi has to go off to work on the analysis and Scotty invites himself along! Only to be stopped by Crusher for needing to rest. Geordi then, kindly, says that he's very busy but that he'll give a tour later.

Later on, Scotty marches into Engineering proclaiming he's there to HELP them! As if he's going to be of ANY help. The Enterprise is fully staffed, not under any emergency and is just doing routine duties and analysies. They hardly need someone with 70-year old engineering knowledge to march in there and start "helping" them.

Geordi kindly tells Scotty they don't need his help but Scotty doesn't take the hint and the proceedes to messing with settings in the computer, opens the dilithium chamber and then even has the stones to question LaForge's work which ends up being the breaking point.

Scotty was, as Geordi says, "in the way." Geordi was busy and he didn't have time to do his work AND to stop Scotty from fooling around/fix his messes AND to explain the new technology to him. It wasn't the right time.

Frankly, Scotty got what he deserved. If someone came into your job and started asking you questions, messing with stuff, and questioning your ability to down your OWN JOB and they were 70 years behind the curve for your job you'd probably get pretty upset too.

Geordi would've gladly shown Scotty around engineering, told him about all the new technologies and techniques at a better time. Scotty was just impatient and his timing was way off. But Scotty gets all haughty and then leaves Geordi with a send-off that makes Geordi feel like crap. ("I'll leave ya to your work Mister LaForge!")

Scotty was way more in the wrong in this situation. The crew was busy. When Picard got off duty HE sought out Scotty to talk with him. So apparently the crew wasn't of the mentality to leave Scotty on his own. They just had work to do.
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Old August 12 2008, 08:23 PM   #20
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Re: No respect for the character of Scotty in "Relics"?

You make a solid argument, but for this:

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
The Enterprise is fully staffed, not under any emergency and is just doing routine duties and analyses.
Doesn't that mean Geordi could have left the task to his subordinates and shepherded a lonely old man around?

In addition, Scotty's a captain—just short of flag rank, and almost certain to be awarded it the moment he arrives at a starbase. You don't tell a venerable officer he's "in the way." You might excuse yourself and summon Captain Picard to do so, but ... you don't bitch at a man who ranks you by two grades and a century, no matter how irritated you are.
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Old August 12 2008, 11:12 PM   #21
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Re: No respect for the character of Scotty in "Relics"?

JM1776 wrote: View Post
You make a solid argument, but for this:

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
The Enterprise is fully staffed, not under any emergency and is just doing routine duties and analyses.
Doesn't that mean Geordi could have left the task to his subordinates and shepherded a lonely old man around?

In addition, Scotty's a captain—just short of flag rank, and almost certain to be awarded it the moment he arrives at a starbase. You don't tell a venerable officer he's "in the way." You might excuse yourself and summon Captain Picard to do so, but ... you don't bitch at a man who ranks you by two grades and a century, no matter how irritated you are.
Agreed, as Chief Engineer, there was no need to micro-manage his team. That would be poor leadership. He could have taken the time to escort a captain around, and given him some pointers on the progress of technology..tactfully. I thought people are supposed to be enlightened and sensitive to others' needs in the Star Trek vision of the future. Even if he was not considered a legend, Scotty was chief engineer of an Enterprise and has the rank of captain. He could have done a computer check of Montgomery Scott, and would have been informed immediately of whom he was is the presence of. Geordi was so awestruck of Zephram Cochrane, but couldn't be bothered with the famous Captain Kirk's engineer?
I know that when I was a soldier, we set up a demonstration for bunch of guys from Audie Murphy's unit, and we showed the utmost respect, and they told stories for hours.
P.S. Audie Murphy (most decorated US soldier of WWII) was even more bad-ass than people know.
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Old August 13 2008, 12:31 AM   #22
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Re: No respect for the character of Scotty in "Relics"?

JM1776 wrote: View Post
You make a solid argument, but for this:

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
The Enterprise is fully staffed, not under any emergency and is just doing routine duties and analyses.
Doesn't that mean Geordi could have left the task to his subordinates and shepherded a lonely old man around?

In addition, Scotty's a captain—just short of flag rank, and almost certain to be awarded it the moment he arrives at a starbase. You don't tell a venerable officer he's "in the way." You might excuse yourself and summon Captain Picard to do so, but ... you don't bitch at a man who ranks you by two grades and a century, no matter how irritated you are.
Which does, of course, make Geordi look very much like a douche, which I'm pretty sure was the episode's intent anyway. I'm astounded at some people (by far a vast minority) in the armed forces today who wave off the stories of WWII vets as annoying.

I like that Geordi went through pretty much a full character circle, and that this episode isn't just a Scotty story, but a Geordi story. If he foolishly didn't know of Scotty before, he definitely does now, and Scotty made sure Geordi knew his name.

My only complaint? Scotty spouting out technobabble. He don't need no stinkin' technobabble!! He didn't explain things, he just made them work.

Kegek wrote: View Post
I thought the episode handled Scotty very well. He's a popular character from the original series - which doesn't necessarily make him to be an unparalled and legendary engineer. This episode could have easily been pure fanservice with everyone on TNG simply gushing at Scotty's presence and begging him to regale them with plotlines from the sixties show, but it managed to tell a story about Scotty and how the elderly can feel obsolescent in modern society. Scotty's exactly what the title suggests - a relic; and his achievements are ancient history.
Geeze, I never realized how this episode could have been so quickly and easily been made into a clip show! Kudos to the Powers That Be for not falling for that trap (heck, Doohan probably wouldn't have signed on if that were the case).
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Old August 13 2008, 02:10 AM   #23
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Re: No respect for the character of Scotty in "Relics"?

^Actually, he didn't overdo it with technobabble like certain characters do at times. He was talking about technology that enables them to travel faster than light, create sheilds and all that, set centuries into the future. They are engineers. Just as the dialogue between today's engineers would sound like babbling to a 17th Century storekeeper.
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Old August 13 2008, 04:32 AM   #24
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Re: No respect for the character of Scotty in "Relics"?

I did enjoy the exchanges between Scotty and Worf. I loved that it didn't matter whether he was in the future or not, he wouldn't accept Worf. That stare they gave each other was great.
Worf got to see Scotty in 2 different stages of his life. Here, and then as a younger man on K-7. Had Obrien already left for DS9 when Relics was on?
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Old August 13 2008, 07:09 PM   #25
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Re: No respect for the character of Scotty in "Relics"?

cbp44189 wrote: View Post
JM1776 wrote: View Post
You make a solid argument, but for this:

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
The Enterprise is fully staffed, not under any emergency and is just doing routine duties and analyses.
Doesn't that mean Geordi could have left the task to his subordinates and shepherded a lonely old man around?

In addition, Scotty's a captain—just short of flag rank, and almost certain to be awarded it the moment he arrives at a starbase. You don't tell a venerable officer he's "in the way." You might excuse yourself and summon Captain Picard to do so, but ... you don't bitch at a man who ranks you by two grades and a century, no matter how irritated you are.
Agreed, as Chief Engineer, there was no need to micro-manage his team. That would be poor leadership. He could have taken the time to escort a captain around, and given him some pointers on the progress of technology..tactfully. I thought people are supposed to be enlightened and sensitive to others' needs in the Star Trek vision of the future. Even if he was not considered a legend, Scotty was chief engineer of an Enterprise and has the rank of captain. He could have done a computer check of Montgomery Scott, and would have been informed immediately of whom he was is the presence of. Geordi was so awestruck of Zephram Cochrane, but couldn't be bothered with the famous Captain Kirk's engineer?
I know that when I was a soldier, we set up a demonstration for bunch of guys from Audie Murphy's unit, and we showed the utmost respect, and they told stories for hours.
P.S. Audie Murphy (most decorated US soldier of WWII) was even more bad-ass than people know.

WWII vets got some good stories. </understatement>
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Old August 13 2008, 08:05 PM   #26
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Re: No respect for the character of Scotty in "Relics"?

My only complaint? Scotty spouting out technobabble. He don't need no stinkin' technobabble!! He didn't explain things, he just made them work.

I liked the techno-babble Scotty. We got so little of that on TOS, just a lot of blinking buttons, it was good to hear Scotty talk like a real engineer
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Old August 13 2008, 08:07 PM   #27
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Re: No respect for the character of Scotty in "Relics"?

Finn wrote: View Post
Oh, come on. Don't be such a geek . It was never shown how well known Scotty is in history. Kirk and Spock are probably the only ones from TOS that is revered and well respected in Picard's time. Scotty and McCoy may be familiar to those in their respective fields. Sulu, Chekov and Uhuru probably have been forgetten by most.

Sulu was very well remembered in the 24th century. There is a bust of him at Starfleet Academy.
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Old August 13 2008, 08:20 PM   #28
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Re: No respect for the character of Scotty in "Relics"?

Finn wrote: View Post
Kirk and Spock are probably the only ones from TOS that is revered and well respected in Picard's time.
Riker did not remember Kirk in "The Naked Now". He had to read who the "old Enterprise" captain was from the library computer. Kirk and Spock weren't remembered or revered until the writers made them that way (well, obviously...but you know what I mean).

A couple of years later, though, Sisko seemed to know all about Kirk and his adventures.

Kirk, on the other hand, knew just about everybody in Federation/Starfleet history, because, as he said on several occasions, "[his exploits] were required reading at the Academy".

I didn't really think the Scotty character was disrespected in "Relics". I thought the treatment the 1701-D crew gave him was fairly realistic. He still ended up saving the day. What I didn't like was the ending...getting the old codger off the ship in a shuttlecraft so he'd quit bugging Geordi was kind of lame.
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Old August 13 2008, 09:13 PM   #29
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Re: No respect for the character of Scotty in "Relics"?

Hambone wrote: View Post
What I didn't like was the ending...getting the old codger off the ship in a shuttlecraft so he'd quit bugging Geordi was kind of lame.
I didn't like the ending either. It seemed a lot like the Eskimos putting their elderly on icebergs and pushing them off to sea.
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Old August 13 2008, 09:20 PM   #30
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Re: No respect for the character of Scotty in "Relics"?

Mallory wrote: View Post
Hambone wrote: View Post
What I didn't like was the ending...getting the old codger off the ship in a shuttlecraft so he'd quit bugging Geordi was kind of lame.
I didn't like the ending either. It seemed a lot like the Eskimos putting their elderly on icebergs and pushing them off to sea.
Yeah, you get the sense that the shuttle is rigged to space him and return on autopilot right after the closing credits.
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