RSS iconTwitter iconFacebook icon

The Trek BBS title image

The Trek BBS statistics

Threads: 138,362
Posts: 5,355,856
Members: 24,626
Currently online: 537
Newest member: glmrkills

TrekToday headlines

Borg Cube Fridge
By: T'Bonz on Jul 29

Free Enterprise Kickstarter
By: T'Bonz on Jul 29

Siddig To Join Game Of Thrones
By: T'Bonz on Jul 29

Sci-Fried To Release New Album
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Star Trek/Planet of the Apes Crossover
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Star Trek into Darkness Soundtrack
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Horse 1, Shatner 0
By: T'Bonz on Jul 28

Drexler TV Alert
By: T'Bonz on Jul 26

Retro Review: His Way
By: Michelle on Jul 26

MicroWarriors Releases Next Week
By: T'Bonz on Jul 25


Welcome! The Trek BBS is the number one place to chat about Star Trek with like-minded fans. Please login to see our full range of forums as well as the ability to send and receive private messages, track your favourite topics and of course join in the discussions.

If you are a new visitor, join us for free. If you are an existing member please login below. Note: for members who joined under our old messageboard system, please login with your display name not your login name.


Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek Movies > Star Trek Movies I-X

Star Trek Movies I-X Discuss the first ten big screen outings in this forum!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old August 3 2008, 04:19 AM   #46
Antihero
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: Just watched Star Trek V The Final Frontier

I've always had a soft spot for this one. Yes, I know the plot holes and flaws are numerous.

The story was very ambitious. Searching for the ultimate truths of existence. That's what sci-fi should be all about. not just big 'splosions.
__________________
Antihero's Top 5 interests:
1. Deep Space Nine; 2. red meat; 3. beer; 4. porn;
and 5. Porn incorporating any combination of items 1, 2, and 3. (If this exists, I will gladly pay top dollar for a provided link.)
Antihero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 3 2008, 02:52 PM   #47
The Old Mixer
Vice Admiral
 
The Old Mixer's Avatar
 
Location: Connecticut
Re: Just watched Star Trek V The Final Frontier

^A little too ambitious, though. Searching for the truths of existence should have some basis in science, or philosophical relevance, or something. Going to meet "God" on a planet in the center of the galaxy was a little too broad.

But to give TFF its due, it looks like a masterpiece of cinema compared to the derivative, contrived piece of crap that is Nemesis.
__________________
50 years ago on July 6: A Hard Day's Night premieres in London.
The Old Mixer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 8 2008, 07:49 PM   #48
Ward Fowler
Commodore
 
Ward Fowler's Avatar
 
Location: Lucerne's Parlor of Mystery
Re: Just watched Star Trek V The Final Frontier

TFF aspired to be more than your normal summer blockbuster. It may have been too broad for some people, but for your normal popcorn munching audience it introduced some weighty ideas. I respect that. Shatner could have done a normal space shoot-em-up if he wanted, but he knew Trek was more than that and he wanted to go deeper. Does the movie have problems? No doubt. Does it introduce big ideas and have the best character moments of any Trek film? No doubt.
__________________
"Playing is for pleasure." -Master Shake
Ward Fowler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 8 2008, 11:40 PM   #49
The Old Mixer
Vice Admiral
 
The Old Mixer's Avatar
 
Location: Connecticut
Re: Just watched Star Trek V The Final Frontier

What are the big, weighty ideas of TFF? That God can be found in the human heart? That we need our mistakes? That friends can become closer than brothers? I don't see anything here that would have gone over the general audience's collective head, nor anything more profound than, say, Yoda's wisdom in TESB.

Patrick Stewart insisted that Nemesis was saying something profound and relevant, though I don't know anyone who figured out what it was supposed to be. It's more than the intended message--it's how well you deliver it.
__________________
50 years ago on July 6: A Hard Day's Night premieres in London.
The Old Mixer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 9 2008, 03:18 PM   #50
Ward Fowler
Commodore
 
Ward Fowler's Avatar
 
Location: Lucerne's Parlor of Mystery
Re: Just watched Star Trek V The Final Frontier

Well, if you would take the time to actually read my post, you'll see that I pointed out that the ideas might seem weighty to the general summer movie audience, not "go over their heads." Nor did I say that the ideas were "profound". I simply said that it aspired to be more than a sci-fi shoot-em-up by exploring issues such as how our experiences, even the painful ones, make us who we are and that we need them for better or worse, or that we all have a need to answer the ultimate question. What does mortality mean to us? Is there anything after death? Are we a cosmic accident or is there some design? Star Trek V addressed these questions in a very broad way and posited the idea that those answers should be sought internally because they can never be answered externally. I'm not saying its some super-intelligent movie, I just appreciate the fact that it was talked about at all in a big-budget summer sci-fi movie. I think shatner made a brave choice when it would have been far safer to do something more conventional. Star Trek V has alot of problems and isn't the best Trek movie by any means, but I really like what they were going for.
__________________
"Playing is for pleasure." -Master Shake
Ward Fowler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 9 2008, 07:03 PM   #51
The Old Mixer
Vice Admiral
 
The Old Mixer's Avatar
 
Location: Connecticut
Re: Just watched Star Trek V The Final Frontier

Ward Fowler wrote: View Post
Well, if you would take the time to actually read my post, you'll see that I pointed out that the ideas might seem weighty to the general summer movie audience, not "go over their heads." Nor did I say that the ideas were "profound".
Ah, semantical quibbling...my biggest turn-off on the Net.

I simply said that it aspired to be more than a sci-fi shoot-em-up by exploring issues such as how our experiences, even the painful ones, make us who we are and that we need them for better or worse, or that we all have a need to answer the ultimate question. What does mortality mean to us? Is there anything after death? Are we a cosmic accident or is there some design? Star Trek V addressed these questions in a very broad way and posited the idea that those answers should be sought internally because they can never be answered externally. I'm not saying its some super-intelligent movie, I just appreciate the fact that it was talked about at all in a big-budget summer sci-fi movie. I think shatner made a brave choice when it would have been far safer to do something more conventional. Star Trek V has alot of problems and isn't the best Trek movie by any means, but I really like what they were going for.
I think you're reading lot more into this movie than it actually said. The big, vague "Quest for God" may have been about all of those things by implication, but the movie didn't do a very good job of articulating any of that. You try to paint it as more than your typical popcorn film, but it was actually the most popcorny of the TOS films, with the possible exception of TVH...which, despite its lighthearted tone, managed to much more successfully deliver a message with its entertainment. I think that TFF tried to follow in the footsteps of its predecessors by saying something "big", and went for something way too big, stumbling badly in the process.

"Is this all that I am? Is there nothing more?" Been there, done that much more effectively in TMP.
__________________
50 years ago on July 6: A Hard Day's Night premieres in London.
The Old Mixer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 10 2008, 02:44 AM   #52
Ward Fowler
Commodore
 
Ward Fowler's Avatar
 
Location: Lucerne's Parlor of Mystery
Re: Just watched Star Trek V The Final Frontier

I'm not reading anything into the movie. I'm simply telling you what I took away from it. It's subjective so results may vary. To say that it's the most "popcorny" of the TOS films seems silly to me. TWOK was far more so for my tastes. As well as TVH, which you mentioned. I find TVH heavy-handed and my TFF disc has gotten much more play. Shatner tried to go deeper than a "Save the whales" theme. I agree that with you that he bit off more than he could chew, but I still thought it was a valiant effort and I respect him for it. As far a semantical quibbling, I look at it as you trying to put words into my mouth and for me that truly is the biggest turn-off on the net.
__________________
"Playing is for pleasure." -Master Shake
Ward Fowler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 10 2008, 04:04 AM   #53
The Old Mixer
Vice Admiral
 
The Old Mixer's Avatar
 
Location: Connecticut
Re: Just watched Star Trek V The Final Frontier

For my money, TWOK had a lot more going on upstairs than TFF.
__________________
50 years ago on July 6: A Hard Day's Night premieres in London.
The Old Mixer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old August 10 2008, 02:30 PM   #54
Ward Fowler
Commodore
 
Ward Fowler's Avatar
 
Location: Lucerne's Parlor of Mystery
Re: Just watched Star Trek V The Final Frontier

Well, it's all pretty subjective. I thought that TWOK had alot of heart but didn't require a lot of thought. TFF was going for both and didn't completely succeed. But as I said before, I appreciate their efforts.
__________________
"Playing is for pleasure." -Master Shake
Ward Fowler is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 19 2008, 09:24 AM   #55
Anticitizen
Fleet Captain
 
Anticitizen's Avatar
 
Location: Black Mesa Research Facility
Re: Just watched Star Trek V The Final Frontier

The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
Ward Fowler wrote: View Post
Well, if you would take the time to actually read my post, you'll see that I pointed out that the ideas might seem weighty to the general summer movie audience, not "go over their heads." Nor did I say that the ideas were "profound".
Ah, semantical quibbling...my biggest turn-off on the Net.
This is not 'semantical quibbling'. This is a case of different words having different meanings. You, however, have twisted the meaning of a word (semantics) to describe something other than its own definition. You have played the semantics game, and therefore are your own biggest turn-off on the net. How's it feel?

To those saying that emotional Sybok was 'too human' and that he should be 'darker' because, hey, why else would Vulcans suppress emotions if they weren't so volatile all the time?:

There is another aspect to being a Vulcan, and that is their little telepathic trick that they do. Sybok, while perfectly pleasant and quite the idealist that wanted peace and detested conflict, used his Vulcan mind games to telepathically subdue others to his 'cause', whether intentionally or not. Perhaps it was a side effect of this quality that caused so much conflict and violence on Vulcan that the only way they could suppress it included, by extension, a suppression of emotion as well.
Anticitizen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 19 2008, 10:01 AM   #56
Kronos
Admiral
 
Kronos's Avatar
 
Location: Running with the Badgers
Re: Just watched Star Trek V The Final Frontier

The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
Nedersong wrote: View Post
However, Sybok was not being human. he was being more like a Romulan. or maybe a renegade Vulcan who fully embraced his emotions.
Name a Romulan who was that jovial.
Tomalak was a jovial fellow

"How long shall we stare at each other across the neutral zone??"



As for TFF, it's 50 times the movie TVH was. IMO of course.
__________________
Now I can breathe and I feel grace rush over me.
Kronos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 19 2008, 02:11 PM   #57
trevanian
Rear Admiral
 
trevanian's Avatar
 
Re: Just watched Star Trek V The Final Frontier

Anticitizen wrote: View Post
The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
Ward Fowler wrote: View Post
Well, if you would take the time to actually read my post, you'll see that I pointed out that the ideas might seem weighty to the general summer movie audience, not "go over their heads." Nor did I say that the ideas were "profound".
Ah, semantical quibbling...my biggest turn-off on the Net.
This is not 'semantical quibbling'. This is a case of different words having different meanings. You, however, have twisted the meaning of a word (semantics) to describe something other than its own definition. You have played the semantics game, and therefore are your own biggest turn-off on the net. How's it feel?

To those saying that emotional Sybok was 'too human' and that he should be 'darker' because, hey, why else would Vulcans suppress emotions if they weren't so volatile all the time?:

There is another aspect to being a Vulcan, and that is their little telepathic trick that they do. Sybok, while perfectly pleasant and quite the idealist that wanted peace and detested conflict, used his Vulcan mind games to telepathically subdue others to his 'cause', whether intentionally or not. Perhaps it was a side effect of this quality that caused so much conflict and violence on Vulcan that the only way they could suppress it included, by extension, a suppression of emotion as well.
When I get some more time, I'm going to look up your other posts. From what I've seen, I'm really impressed, some good speculation (by good, I mean speculation based on observation and thought, not just blue sky musing.)
trevanian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 19 2008, 07:54 PM   #58
Anticitizen
Fleet Captain
 
Anticitizen's Avatar
 
Location: Black Mesa Research Facility
Re: Just watched Star Trek V The Final Frontier

trevanian wrote: View Post
Anticitizen wrote: View Post
The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
Ah, semantical quibbling...my biggest turn-off on the Net.
This is not 'semantical quibbling'. This is a case of different words having different meanings. You, however, have twisted the meaning of a word (semantics) to describe something other than its own definition. You have played the semantics game, and therefore are your own biggest turn-off on the net. How's it feel?

To those saying that emotional Sybok was 'too human' and that he should be 'darker' because, hey, why else would Vulcans suppress emotions if they weren't so volatile all the time?:

There is another aspect to being a Vulcan, and that is their little telepathic trick that they do. Sybok, while perfectly pleasant and quite the idealist that wanted peace and detested conflict, used his Vulcan mind games to telepathically subdue others to his 'cause', whether intentionally or not. Perhaps it was a side effect of this quality that caused so much conflict and violence on Vulcan that the only way they could suppress it included, by extension, a suppression of emotion as well.
When I get some more time, I'm going to look up your other posts. From what I've seen, I'm really impressed, some good speculation (by good, I mean speculation based on observation and thought, not just blue sky musing.)
I'm blushing, thanks. I haven't been a member long so there isn't much to read, I'm afraid. Been a Trek fan all my life and it was popular in my social circle, so therefore have had plenty of conversations about this stuff over the years.
Anticitizen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 19 2008, 08:19 PM   #59
RobertScorpio
Pariah
 
Location: San Diego
Re: Just watched Star Trek V The Final Frontier

The Old Mixer wrote: View Post
^On paper, he was exactly what you say. But the execution left much to be desired. We weren't seeing a Vulcan laugh. We were seeing a jovial human who just happened to be wearing pointed ears.

Think about the various times in TOS when Spock's emotions were let loose. There was always something creepy and disturbing about it. Perhaps because we were used to seeing Nimoy acting emotionally restrained. But that's how they should have cast Sybok--get somebody who's more introverted, and make them act extroverted. In casting somebody who came off as completely, naturally extroverted, they didn't sell the point.

A more intriguing way to portray a Vulcan who embraces his emotions would be to have him embrace negative emotions as well as positive ones. For the "villain" of the story, Sybok was unusually likeable. Imagine if they'd given him a pronounced negative side--had him flying off in rages with little provocation, that sort of thing. Show us that there's a reason that the Vulcans are so big about restraining their emotions, as TOS established.
If Lawence Lukenbill got you to think you were watching a man who just so happened to have pointed ears on, then he did EXACTLY what the role demanded...he was great, IMO...and compared to NEMESIS and INSURRECTION? its light years better..and made more money, not even accounting for inflation, than NEMESIS...

So, TREK V had its issues, but is far from being the worse TREK film..NEMESIS, IMO, wins that award hands down...it just an awful movie with no 'character' moments to even give it an effort....


Rob
RobertScorpio is offline   Reply With Quote
Old November 22 2008, 02:13 AM   #60
Finnegan
Captain
 
Finnegan's Avatar
 
Location: Toronto
Re: Just watched Star Trek V The Final Frontier

I remember reading an interview (possibly with Nimoy), and he said that the effects were shoddy because there was some kind of strike/job action going on with the FX people, and they had to make too many compromises in order to get the film to a completed state. Also, Shatner's original story was far different, and had demons from hell actually dragging Bones and Spock off to some hellish pit/dimension--waaay more serious and dark than what it eventually became. The studio said "we like the one with the whales--do it like that", and so some serious changes got forced onto Shatner, leading to the film we now know. Wish I could remmber the source of that interview. Anyone?
__________________
The whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, all of them imaginary.
- H.L. Mencken
Finnegan is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 01:38 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
FireFox 2+ or Internet Explorer 7+ highly recommended.