The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

[Timby]

TheBolianChef wrote:

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I wanted to see Gordon do more than break into a few banks. I wanted him to go after some of the petty criminals set free in Batman Begins.

You complain about a subplot that adds nothing to the movie, and then turn around and say you want the movie to waste time on Gordon chasing petty crooks, which in turn would ... add nothing of substantive value to the movie.

I am intrigued by your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

[Robert Maxwell]

Manticore wrote:

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That's odd. I felt that the beginning was very crammed and disjointed, while the rest flowed nicely and worked quite well.

The movie built up tension pretty well, all the way up to the Joker being captured the first time. The interrogation scene was good, but didn't really live up to the Joker's previous scenes, such as the first time he confronted the mob. The hospital plot wasn't bad, but it just felt like the movie gradually ran out of steam. The sequence with Batman in the glass building looking for the Joker just didn't work for me. The effects were cool and all, but I just didn't feel the tension the way I did with the car chase. Maybe it's because the Joker was holding a bunch of nobody hostages.

A cardinal rule of drama: if you're going to place people in danger so the hero can save them, they need to be people you care about. The chase scene worked because Dent's life was at stake, and by that point in the movie it was hard not to care what happened to him. But with a bunch of people I know nothing about being held hostage... well, who cares? If they die, it wouldn't really affect the audience in any way.

I didn't think it was a bad movie, I just think it might have actually worked better if the two big Joker plots had been reversed: have the glass building/hostages earlier on, and the big car chase as the final act's action setpiece.

And a LOT of the mob stuff could have been cut without losing much (except Tom Berenger.) The mob stuff was okay in Begins, but it just didn't do much here.

[doubleohfive]

Saw it yesterday during a double-feature marathon with some friends. Loved it.

Definitely want to go see it in IMAX now.

PS X-Files sucked.

[Thespeckledkiwi]

JKTim wrote:

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You complain about a subplot that adds nothing to the movie, and then turn around and say you want the movie to waste time on Gordon chasing petty crooks, which in turn would ... add nothing of substantive value to the movie.

I am intrigued by your ideas and wish to subscribe to your newsletter.

I wanted more character development out of the characters. It was nearly devoid of any in the movie.

I think that if we got rid of the whole Chinese subplot (which made no sense and as you said added nothing to the movie) and used that time to added to the development of Gordon and Dent, I think that would be been better to the movie.

If you don't think adding some substance to Gordon and his rapid and confusing ascension to commissioner, then you aren't a writer.

Truthfully Batman and Superman were never my favorite DC characters. Or Wonder Woman. I liked the other ones better. There were a few Batman comics I did enjoy (Long Halloween being one of them). I enjoyed the TAS and Beyond immensely and Justice League but those are another medium.

[doubleohfive]

TheBolianChef wrote:

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I wanted more character development out of the characters. It was nearly devoid of any in the movie.

There was plenty of that.

I think that if we got rid of the whole Chinese subplot (which made no sense and as you said added nothing to the movie) and used that time to added to the development of Gordon and Dent, I think that would be been better to the movie.

I thought Gordon had plenty of development, at least plenty in terms of what was needed in the film.

If you don't think adding some substance to Gordon and his rapid and confusing ascension to commissioner, then you aren't a writer.

It wasn't rapid. He didn't get promoted til at least midway through the film, and even before that he was on the ground doing everything he could to catch the Joker -- which he eventually ended up aiding in doing.

Truthfully Batman and Superman were never my favorite DC characters. Or Wonder Woman. I liked the other ones better.

So despite the objective quality of the film, your subjective opinion has already marred it. Gotcha.

There were a few Batman comics I did enjoy (Long Halloween being one of them). I enjoyed the TAS and Beyond immensely and Justice League but those are another medium.

Relevance?

[Trekker4747]

Truthfully Batman and Superman were never my favorite DC characters. Or Wonder Woman. I liked the other ones better.

WHAT other ones? Green Arrow?

[Emh]

Robert Maxwell wrote:

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And a LOT of the mob stuff could have been cut without losing much (except Tom Berenger.) The mob stuff was okay in Begins, but it just didn't do much here.

That wasn't Tom Berenger, rather it was Eric Roberts.

[Robert Maxwell]

Emh wrote:

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That wasn't Tom Berenger, rather it was Eric Roberts.

CRAP! I always get those two mixed up. Sorry.

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

I loved the movie, though some of the dialogue was a bit too pointed.

I think the best thing about the film is that filmmakers are going to realize that the story is what epople see not anything flashy. The action in the film was very authentic, without any standout CGI or anything like that. It was 't a lot of action and it didn't take away from the story, instead it added to the investment people had into the characters. Hopefully this will start a trend away from the overuse of CGI... it should only be a tool, not the reason to see a film

[The Borgified Corpse]

Robert Maxwell wrote:

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CRAP! I always get those two mixed up. Sorry.

Yeah. I had a hard time my first time out figuring out who he was too. I'm more familiar with Tom Berenger (thanks to his work in Platoon). It took me quite a while to recognize Boss Moroni as Mr. Bennett's boss on Heroes. The easiest way to tell the difference is that Roberts is a lot smarmier.

For that matter, I went through 2 whole viewings of the film without recognizing the guy who played Holtz on Angel Season 3.

[amdmiami]

So I finally saw this film today with some friends and let me say that I was not dissapointed. The movie lived up to its hipe and exceded my expectations. Ledger was creepy and that weird lip smaking noise he mad added a lot more to his character. I also loved the Harvey Dent side plot. To bad he can't be the big villain in the next movie.

[nx1701g]

^ Not necessarily. Eckhart had said he's interested in returning. Some people seem to think Batman stashed Dent somewhere.

[Thespeckledkiwi]

Mutarada wrote:

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There was plenty of that.



I thought Gordon had plenty of development, at least plenty in terms of what was needed in the film.



It wasn't rapid. He didn't get promoted til at least midway through the film, and even before that he was on the ground doing everything he could to catch the Joker -- which he eventually ended up aiding in doing.

So despite the objective quality of the film, your subjective opinion has already marred it. Gotcha.

Relevance?

There wasn't a lot of character development. Dent? Joker even had not enough character development. In fact one of my favorite things about the Joker was his origin story. I really wish they had tied that into Batman.

Gordon didn't have a lot of development. So catching Joker promoted him to commish? Hmm. I wish there was more to that, then here ya go, here's the commish part. That felt rushed and latched on, that they had to do it.

Actually, I was going into the Dark Knight hoping I liked it. I did like the Joker a LOT more than I expected. The trailers didn't do him justice at all. But...Dent? I was hoping more from him. A lot more. The film felt oddly paced and just...not good.

Because you can't simply separate the mediums, which portray the characters. In fact one of my favorite, FAVORITE movies is Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker. That was one of my favorite cartoon movies as well. It took the character we knew from the cartoons and did something that we all hoped it did. I also liked the pace and style of the Long Halloween. I liked the Animated Series a lot. I like what they did to guys like Dent and to the Joker in those.

[Thespeckledkiwi]

Trekker4747 wrote:

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WHAT other ones? Green Arrow?

Green Lantern, Martian Manhunter...The Lantern Corp and what they are doing now is fascinating. I also like some of the obscure characters. The New Blue Beetle is fun. I am highly anticipating Ambush Bug and seeing what they do with him. I like the JSA a lot as well.

Green Lantern Corp though is one of my favorites.

Aquaman is even worse then those trio...I have started enjoying Batman more lately. The RIP has me intrigued on where they are going. I don't like what they did with his son or what they did to the New Robin.

[Thespeckledkiwi]

YYZ wrote:

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I loved the movie, though some of the dialogue was a bit too pointed.

I think the best thing about the film is that filmmakers are going to realize that the story is what epople see not anything flashy. The action in the film was very authentic, without any standout CGI or anything like that. It was 't a lot of action and it didn't take away from the story, instead it added to the investment people had into the characters. Hopefully this will start a trend away from the overuse of CGI... it should only be a tool, not the reason to see a film

This I can agree with. One of the most outstanding things about the Dark Knight is the limited use of CGI.