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Old July 25 2008, 04:12 PM   #331
Trekker4747
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Re: Does Gordon know? Spoilers for TDK

biotech wrote: View Post
I'm just wondering after the lamborghini crash scene, if Gordon didnt figure out Bruce and Batman are one and the same, especially after he already heard Batman say he was going after Racheal when he only had time to save one.

Hell as good a detective as he is, he probably figured it out long before then.
If I'm not mistaken, in the comic he "knows" but just doesn't let on to Batman that he knows/care.

It's possible in the movie he "knows" but just doesn't do anything with that knowledge.
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Old July 25 2008, 05:35 PM   #332
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Re: Does Gordon know? Spoilers for TDK

Skywalker wrote: View Post
Gordon doesn't strike me as the kind of person who follows or even cares about what Bruce Wayne does. He probably doesn't even know Bruce Wayne and Rachel Dawes were childhood friends, so I don't know how he'd make any connection there.
I'll agree with that. Gordon is not the type to care much about billionaire playboys (teenage girls maybe, but not an overworked police officer).

Even after the crash Bruce was doing a great job playing dumb "You think I should go to a hospital?" "You don't watch the news much do you Mr. Wayne?"

Of course I'm sure Gordon knows that Batman must be rich (or at least work for/with a rich person), but I'm sure there are at the very least tens of thousands of Gotham citizens rich enough to fund Batman.
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Old July 25 2008, 07:02 PM   #333
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Re: Does Gordon know? Spoilers for TDK

My 2cents on all this...

I waited the better part of a week before even trying to go to the theater... went on Wednesday night after work. Every show over the weekend was sold-out in advance at my local theater. I've NEVER heard of that before. But how much of that was the "Ledger hype" and how much is going to fade away after it ceases to be seen as an "event" and is seen as "just a movie?" I'd guess that the peak opening-weekend profits are going to drop and while successful, it's not going to see a lot of "repeat viewings" like the really BIG movies do.

The film was terrific, that said. There area few things that bugged me, but overall, I liked it.

1) I'm not sold on the new batsuit. Yes, it looks functional, but it no longer has that "monstrous" quality... the fear-inducing element. It's just a really cool SWAT suit now. As for the "head turn" bit, well... if the neck part of the cowl/cape portion of the costume were simply (as shown in the comics) made of the cape fabric rather than of thick "muscle-ish" rubber, the head would turn easily enough anyway.

I still think that the best-looking "batsuit" is the one in the web-based "Batman: Dead End." (Of course, you need a VERY specific sort of actor to wear that suit.)

2) I thought it was amusing how they took two things DIRECTLY from the earlier Batman movie series... the "transformer from car to motorcycle" thing and the "joker falling to his death" thing and did a riff on them. I really liked the Joker bit (I groaned when I thought he was going to die that way... but smiled when they turned it around). I didn't like the "motorcycle" bit, however... as an engineer, this just seemed stupid. Remember that the vehicle was built for the military as a bridging vehicle, not built by Optimus Prime.

3) I think Ledger's performance was great. I still don't think he LOOKED the part, but he ACTED it perfectly.

That's the real reason I think it CAN be recast, though... Ledger's performance didn't create a new version of the Joker. Rather, it was the first time that the character as he's existed in the comics for pretty much the entirety of his existence was portrayed accurately (ie, as a "force of chaos" rather than a "funny criminal") was seen on-screen.

What Ledger's performance did wasn't "define" the Joker, but rather it DISCREDITED the bad versions that other actors (including Nicholson, IMHO) have given us in the past. Any future Joker won't be Ledger... but it will be the anarchist force of chaotic evil... the demon in clown makeup... rather than the "funny, entertaining guy who steals stuff and sometimes hurts people."

It's a high bar... but it's not LEDGER'S bar. Ledger is just the first guy to make it past. The next guy may do even better.

4. The penthouse/garage idea for the "branch batcave" downtown is straight from the comics. It was well-done. My only real issue was with Wayne sitting in the suit in front of the windows. Having lived in downtown Chicago myself, I know just how "imprivate" that sort of life could be. Odds are, especially since people would know that was Wayne's apartment, you'd have photographers focused on it at all times. And the next day, he'd be on the front page of the National Enquirer.

5. Wayne Tower wasn't the same building as the first movie... not remotely. Now, maybe this was just some office space purchased to occupy while they restored the outside of the REAL "Wayne Tower" (with the rail system running into it and the waterworks underneath) which was damaged pretty severely at the end of Batman Begins. Still, I'd have liked SOME reference to the first movie's tower, even if just in a background shot, under reconstruction (similar to how they addressed Wayne Manor).

6) I agree that the recasting of Rachael wasn't a drawback at all. I'm not a fan of Katie Holmes, but I'm not a fan of Maggie either. I don't think either one is particular spectacular looking... both are, really (when not made up) fairly ordinary-looking (that's not an insult... most folks are ordinary-looking after all!) The actresses look and sound just enough alike that I could accept the recasting without any "suspension of disbelief" issues. Of course, I also strongly suspected that what would happen to her was what was going to happen, so it didn't seem like all that big of a deal anyway.

7) Eckhardt as Dent... other than his hair being a bit too "emo" for my taste, and the loss of his eyelid (which looked cool but wouldn't allow his eye to remain, much less to remain functional!) I liked this. I'm convinced that we WILL see this character again, and probably played by the same actor. The makeup will be a bit different (from "raw fresh wound" to "massive scarring") but should remain REAL rather than like the prior "batman movie" series gave us with Tommy Lee Jones (aggggghhhh....)

The one thing that I think that they missed, at least a bit, was Dent's psychosis was too emotional. Of course, that's OK because it was a NEW psychosis... eventually, the guy becomes pretty much totally emotionless. Instead of acting on his feelings, the coin makes EVERY choice for him. Good or evil, nice or nasty, generous or greedy... all from the coin. That's the other reason I don't want him "gone" after this movie... there's a lot more development to be had from him. It'd be a waste to lose that now.

Basically, this was a terrific movie. The only things that bugged me were the "setup for the sequel" ending and the fan attitude about Ledger overshadowing the CHARACTER of the Joker (which, I'm sure, will fade soon enough... the character was there before Ledger - and I don't mean the Nicholson, or Romero for that matter, versions... I mean the COMIC version!), the "too techy" batsuit, and the goofy "transformers" motorcycle conversion.

A very few quibbles. It is a terrific movie overall.
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Old July 25 2008, 08:11 PM   #334
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Re: Does Gordon know? Spoilers for TDK

4 one way glass.
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Old July 25 2008, 09:17 PM   #335
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Re: Does Gordon know? Spoilers for TDK

Cary L. Brown wrote: View Post
1) I'm not sold on the new batsuit. Yes, it looks functional, but it no longer has that "monstrous" quality... the fear-inducing element. It's just a really cool SWAT suit now.
Totally agree-- you summed up my problem with the suit perfectly.


2) I didn't like the "motorcycle" bit, however... as an engineer, this just seemed stupid. Remember that the vehicle was built for the military as a bridging vehicle, not built by Optimus Prime.
I hadn't thought about that. But I suppose Bruce could have had the Tumbler modified at some point...

The one thing that I think that they missed, at least a bit, was Dent's psychosis was too emotional. Of course, that's OK because it was a NEW psychosis... eventually, the guy becomes pretty much totally emotionless. Instead of acting on his feelings, the coin makes EVERY choice for him. Good or evil, nice or nasty, generous or greedy... all from the coin. That's the other reason I don't want him "gone" after this movie... there's a lot more development to be had from him. It'd be a waste to lose that now.
Yeah I kinda know what you mean. I had a hard time buying that his burns and the loss of Rachel, as bad as those things were, would actually send him over the edge and turn him into a raving, bloodthirsty madman; he just seemed to be too decent a guy for that.

It might have been more believable if the trauma and heartache had simply been so overwhelming that he simply shut down emotionally and decided to let the coin take over. It would have been pretty chilling to see this normally fired up and energetic guy suddenly walking around cold and emotionless.

Last edited by davejames; July 25 2008 at 09:22 PM.
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Old July 25 2008, 10:20 PM   #336
biotech
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Re: Does Gordon know? Spoilers for TDK

Well he seemed ok before the Joker came to visit.

He planted the seed in Harvey that made two face.
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Old July 25 2008, 10:41 PM   #337
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Saw it earlier. Not a bad film, but I dont know, didnt like it as much as the previous one. I thought it was too long, I thought on occasions the batsuit just looked silly and didnt care for how the Rachel character was portrayed or acted. While Ledger was good, I dont think his performance will ever go down as the "iconic joker" style of one. At certain times, especially when he was dressed as a nurse, I kept getting reminded of Mark Hamil's Joker from the cartoons.
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Old July 26 2008, 12:29 AM   #338
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Seen it today! Good film not brilliant and I can't make up my mind if its better than Begins. Ledgers performance was good but overrated, any decent actor probably could have pulled the Joker off.
And did anyone feel like this didn't really feel like a Batman film?
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Old July 26 2008, 12:36 AM   #339
Cary L. Brown
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MPH wrote: View Post
Seen it today! Good film not brilliant and I can't make up my mind if its better than Begins. Ledgers performance was good but overrated, any decent actor probably could have pulled the Joker off.
And did anyone feel like this didn't really feel like a Batman film?
Ummm... it didn't feel like a Tim Burton film or a ... oh, hell, I've forgotten the name of the guy who followed Burton... well, anyway... it didn't feel like the last batch of movies.

But it DID feel like a Batman film, just like "Begins" did. These are the ONLY Batman shows I've ever seen that felt like "Batman" as I've known the character for over four decades.

So, what is it that a Batman film is "supposed to feel like" in your view?

For me, Batman is the only "superhero" who really fits into the real world better than into the fantasy world. The more "real" the world is, the better the Batman story is. You can't say the same for any other character, IMHO.

The opposite viewpoint was taken by the last few movies before Nolan... driving cars around on gargantuan art-deco statues and so forth. Of course, those movies were absolute sewage, IMHO, soooo....
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Old July 27 2008, 04:29 AM   #340
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Re: The Dark Knight Megathread (USE THIS! Love, the mods)

I'm writing an article on TDK and could use a memory jog. Generally in the movie, torture doesn't work (not against the Joker, or the insane guy Dent threatens to kill). But what about when Batman pushes the mobster and breaks his legs? He gets some solid info from that, right?

PS. I don't condone torture, just trying to get an accurate representation.
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Old July 27 2008, 04:34 AM   #341
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Re: The Dark Knight Megathread (USE THIS! Love, the mods)

gaith1 wrote: View Post
I'm writing an article on TDK and could use a memory jog. Generally in the movie, torture doesn't work (not against the Joker, or the insane guy Dent threatens to kill). But what about when Batman pushes the mobster and breaks his legs? He gets some solid info from that, right?

PS. I don't condone torture, just trying to get an accurate representation.
No, not really. Maroni taunts him for letting people die while Batman has still not turned himself in, Batman says Joker must have friends (to which Maroni replies, "Have you met the guy?"). The only barely useful thing Maroni mentions is that the Joker came to the mob, not the other way around.
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Old July 27 2008, 04:54 AM   #342
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Re: The Dark Knight Megathread (USE THIS! Love, the mods)

I knew I could count on the BBS! Thanks.
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Old July 27 2008, 03:47 PM   #343
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gaith1 wrote: View Post
I'm writing an article on TDK and could use a memory jog. Generally in the movie, torture doesn't work (not against the Joker, or the insane guy Dent threatens to kill).
Didnt it work on the insane guy though?
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Old July 27 2008, 04:23 PM   #344
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Re: The Dark Knight Megathread (USE THIS! Love, the mods)

nx1701g wrote: View Post
^ Um I was a preteen during the Titanic reign. I know people that saw it 20+ times. That is not an embellishment or a made up figure. One of my friends in middle school saw Titanic 27
Note: I only saw Titanic once in a theatre.
She spent at least $160 on Titanic tickets?

Well it looks like comic fanboys have got nothing on teeny boppers.
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Old July 27 2008, 04:39 PM   #345
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Cary L. Brown wrote: View Post
MPH wrote: View Post
Seen it today! Good film not brilliant and I can't make up my mind if its better than Begins. Ledgers performance was good but overrated, any decent actor probably could have pulled the Joker off.
And did anyone feel like this didn't really feel like a Batman film?
Ummm... it didn't feel like a Tim Burton film or a ... oh, hell, I've forgotten the name of the guy who followed Burton... well, anyway... it didn't feel like the last batch of movies.

But it DID feel like a Batman film, just like "Begins" did. These are the ONLY Batman shows I've ever seen that felt like "Batman" as I've known the character for over four decades.

So, what is it that a Batman film is "supposed to feel like" in your view?

For me, Batman is the only "superhero" who really fits into the real world better than into the fantasy world. The more "real" the world is, the better the Batman story is. You can't say the same for any other character, IMHO.

The opposite viewpoint was taken by the last few movies before Nolan... driving cars around on gargantuan art-deco statues and so forth. Of course, those movies were absolute sewage, IMHO, soooo....
Im not sure! Maybe I wanted to see something in the lines of between Burtons and Schumachers films, I think Begins did this with that monorail for an example. This Gotham city just seemed like any US city.
Oh and I missed the Wayne manor and would have liked to have seen the Batcave.
This film seemed to me just like a crime thriller that happens to just have Batman in it.
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