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View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
Excellent 271 79.47%
Above Average 46 13.49%
Average 17 4.99%
Below Average 2 0.59%
Poor 5 1.47%
Voters: 341. You may not vote on this poll

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Old July 24 2008, 01:40 AM   #586
JacksonArcher
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

Agent Richard07 wrote: View Post
^ Do we know that she knew that it was Batman that saved Harvey? i don't remember everything about the scene.
It was difficult to pinpoint what exactly Rachel knew, but I suspect she realized once Batman found out that he would try and save either or both.
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Old July 24 2008, 01:40 AM   #587
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

She wouldn't know because all that was said, was lots of "Why?!?", "No!!", and something along the lines of "Why me?!?". There was no names mentioned.
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Old July 24 2008, 01:42 AM   #588
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

At the beginning of the movie there were a number of Batman imitators. They made their own costumes and had their own equipment and weapons. Is Bruce really different than these guys? I was thinking probably not. Aside from taking the time to train himself, he's just richer and can afford better equipment.
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Old July 24 2008, 01:44 AM   #589
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

JacksonArcher wrote: View Post
Agent Richard07 wrote: View Post
^ Do we know that she knew that it was Batman that saved Harvey? i don't remember everything about the scene.
It was difficult to pinpoint what exactly Rachel knew, but I suspect she realized once Batman found out that he would try and save either or both.
Of course she didn't know that Batman found out did she?
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Old July 24 2008, 01:52 AM   #590
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

Agent Richard07 wrote: View Post
At the beginning of the movie there were a number of Batman imitators. They made their own costumes and had their own equipment and weapons. Is Bruce really different than these guys? I was thinking probably not. Aside from taking the time to train himself, he's just richer and can afford better equipment.
Thus Batman's line of "I'm not wearing hockey pads". I thought the copycat sub-plot was going to be featured more, but I think it worked within the confines of the plot.
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Old July 24 2008, 01:53 AM   #591
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

Agent Richard07 wrote: View Post
JacksonArcher wrote: View Post
Agent Richard07 wrote: View Post
^ Do we know that she knew that it was Batman that saved Harvey? i don't remember everything about the scene.
It was difficult to pinpoint what exactly Rachel knew, but I suspect she realized once Batman found out that he would try and save either or both.
Of course she didn't know that Batman found out did she?
She guessed?
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Old July 24 2008, 02:00 AM   #592
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

Agent Richard07 wrote: View Post
At the beginning of the movie there were a number of Batman imitators. They made their own costumes and had their own equipment and weapons. Is Bruce really different than these guys? I was thinking probably not. Aside from taking the time to train himself, he's just richer and can afford better equipment.
Well, he's not running around with guns trying to kill people. In fact, he's trying to avoid killing folks.
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Old July 24 2008, 02:06 AM   #593
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

davejames wrote: View Post
I've always thought Nicholson's take was severly underrated by the fans, but I gotta agree it looks hammy as HELL next to what Ledger did with it.
Nicholson's Joker was "Hey, look at ME! I'm ACTING!"

Like just about everything the guy's done in 25-30 years.

Joe, not a fan
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Old July 24 2008, 02:06 AM   #594
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

archeryguy1701 wrote: View Post
Agent Richard07 wrote: View Post
At the beginning of the movie there were a number of Batman imitators. They made their own costumes and had their own equipment and weapons. Is Bruce really different than these guys? I was thinking probably not. Aside from taking the time to train himself, he's just richer and can afford better equipment.
Well, he's not running around with guns trying to kill people. In fact, he's trying to avoid killing folks.
Which is why I thought it might have been more appropriate for Batman to say something along the lines of "Because I don't need guns" or somesuch rather than the "hockey pads" comment.
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Old July 24 2008, 02:12 AM   #595
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

JacksonArcher wrote: View Post
archeryguy1701 wrote: View Post
Agent Richard07 wrote: View Post
At the beginning of the movie there were a number of Batman imitators. They made their own costumes and had their own equipment and weapons. Is Bruce really different than these guys? I was thinking probably not. Aside from taking the time to train himself, he's just richer and can afford better equipment.
Well, he's not running around with guns trying to kill people. In fact, he's trying to avoid killing folks.
Which is why I thought it might have been more appropriate for Batman to say something along the lines of "Because I don't need guns" or somesuch rather than the "hockey pads" comment.
Except what he was expressing to the imitators was about their protection, which was his main concern.

This was one of the few superhero movies where I didn't feel like rolling my eyes at a single line. If he'd said, "Because I don't need guns" at that part, they'd have rolled out of my head.
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Old July 24 2008, 02:19 AM   #596
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

One of the things I didn't like about the movie was how Harvey Dent's fall from grace was treated by Batman & Gordon as such a catastrophe in terms of their fight against organized crime. Like, if any of the public ever saw the slightest tarnish on Dent's reputation, it would throw the masses into such despair that they would never recover. I didn't like that they seem to hold so little regard for the people of Gotham that they need to be lied to just so that they'll go along with the right thing.

For that matter, I wouldn't think it was Dent's incorruptible reputation that made him so unique but rather his fearlessness. Like Gordon said in Batman Begins, what they really needed was a D.A. brave enough to prosecute without fear of mob reprisals. In that respect, it doesn't really matter how Dent died. The fact that he died at all is what might terrorize the people into submission to the mob again.
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Old July 24 2008, 02:29 AM   #597
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

The Borgified Corpse wrote: View Post
One of the things I didn't like about the movie was how Harvey Dent's fall from grace was treated by Batman & Gordon as such a catastrophe in terms of their fight against organized crime. Like, if any of the public ever saw the slightest tarnish on Dent's reputation, it would throw the masses into such despair that they would never recover. I didn't like that they seem to hold so little regard for the people of Gotham that they need to be lied to just so that they'll go along with the right thing.
Well, that's kind of true about politicians and public servants. One little speck of imperfection and one's career is completely ruined. Batman & Gordon were determined to make sure Dent's image was not tarnished in the view of Gotham, even if that meant sacrificing...which was the whole point of Batman's ultimate sacrifice at the end. He was the hero that Gotham needed him to be at that moment, the hero that Dent could never be but the hero that Gotham should remember. If the public knew of what Dent did, it would tarnish the spirits of Gotham more than anything.

For that matter, I wouldn't think it was Dent's incorruptible reputation that made him so unique but rather his fearlessness. Like Gordon said in Batman Begins, what they really needed was a D.A. brave enough to prosecute without fear of mob reprisals. In that respect, it doesn't really matter how Dent died. The fact that he died at all is what might terrorize the people into submission to the mob again.
Actually, I believe it was Batman who said that to Gordon on his first night out. Dent's death was tragic, but often public figures are remembered more after their death. It's sort of the same situation in Insomnia. Ellie was going to safeguard Dormer's reputation but he didn't want his reputation restored. He could have died a hero cop but he didn't want Ellie to lose her way, so he would sacrifice his reputation in order to do the right thing.

Batman & Gordon were in some respects sacrificing themselves so that Dent's reputation could be remembered as a hero rather than as a villain, which ties into Dent's line exactly -- "You either die a hero or live long enough to see yourself become the villain". Batman & Gordon didn't want Gotham to see Dent as the villain. They wanted Gotham to see him as the hero.
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Old July 24 2008, 02:30 AM   #598
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

One of the things I didn't like about the movie was how Harvey Dent's fall from grace was treated by Batman & Gordon as such a catastrophe in terms of their fight against organized crime. Like, if any of the public ever saw the slightest tarnish on Dent's reputation, it would throw the masses into such despair that they would never recover. I didn't like that they seem to hold so little regard for the people of Gotham that they need to be lied to just so that they'll go along with the right thing.
It was more that if his reputation was tranished it'd give the mob guy's defense a lot of leverage to call his credibility into question on arresting and prosecuting the mob guys possibly ruining all of their efforts.
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Old July 24 2008, 02:34 AM   #599
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

Dent's reputation is already tarnished. There are people out there who have seen his bad side (no pun intended). What if word gets around?
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Old July 24 2008, 02:35 AM   #600
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

Agent Richard07 wrote: View Post
Dent's reputation is already tarnished. There are people out there who have seen his bad side (no pun intended). What if word gets around?
Who, though? One of Joker's demented goons? That's pretty much it. Anyone who Dent came across as Two-Face was pretty much killed on-site, besides perhaps Ramirez, who was corrupt and is likely going to prison anyway.
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