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View Poll Results: Grade the movie...
Excellent 271 79.47%
Above Average 46 13.49%
Average 17 4.99%
Below Average 2 0.59%
Poor 5 1.47%
Voters: 341. You may not vote on this poll

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Old July 21 2008, 12:35 AM   #331
davejames
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
I'm surprised anyone fell for the "death" of Jim Gordon.

Hello!!! It's Jim GORDON! Lieutenant Gordon at the time! I mean, come on, how dense can you be. I didn't believe it for a second.

Someone above mentioned a continuity error with Gordon's wife feeding a baby in BB and both children beening much older here. Well, it's possible she was sitting a relative's or neighbors kid.
In any other Batman movie I'd agree. But Nolan had already taken the movie into so many dark directions (and taken it so far from the traditional superhero world) that it started to seem like ANYTHING could happen with these characters.

In any case, it was effective. I was liking the movie fine until then, but it wasn't until his death that the movie REALLY grabbed hold of me and became compelling. Suddenly this was a completely new and unpredictable Batman world I was watching, which was exciting as hell.

In fact part of me wishes Nolan hadn't played it safe, and had kept Gordon dead.
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Old July 21 2008, 12:54 AM   #332
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

davejames wrote: View Post
In fact part of me wishes Nolan hadn't played it safe, and had kept Gordon dead.
I don't think "playing it safe" is the right way to put it. It was part of the plot. It's not as if Gordon was really supposed to die, and then "hey, look, he's okay, folks!". That's for Spielberg and War of the Worlds to do.
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Old July 21 2008, 01:17 AM   #333
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

Trekker4747 wrote: View Post
I'm surprised anyone fell for the "death" of Jim Gordon.

Hello!!! It's Jim GORDON! Lieutenant Gordon at the time! I mean, come on, how dense can you be. I didn't believe it for a second.

Someone above mentioned a continuity error with Gordon's wife feeding a baby in BB and both children beening much older here. Well, it's possible she was sitting a relative's or neighbors kid.
They sold the "death" of Gordon very well.
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Old July 21 2008, 01:29 AM   #334
Campe98
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

DarthPipes wrote: View Post

They sold the "death" of Gordon very well.
Agreed! I was starting to wonder how many liberties Nolan was going to take with the series. I figured he probably wasn't dead, but there was certainly doubt in my mind.
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Old July 21 2008, 01:37 AM   #335
davejames
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

Hicks wrote: View Post
davejames wrote: View Post
In fact part of me wishes Nolan hadn't played it safe, and had kept Gordon dead.
I don't think "playing it safe" is the right way to put it. It was part of the plot. It's not as if Gordon was really supposed to die, and then "hey, look, he's okay, folks!". That's for Spielberg and War of the Worlds to do.
I don't know, once we see that Gordon is alive, the entire death came across as kind of a cheap and contrived stunt to me-- more for the audience than for The Joker.

You mean to tell me that, with everything ELSE going down, Gordon decides to use The Joker's assassination attempt as a good time to play dead?!? As if his family were somehow high on The Joker's list of targets or something?

I didn't buy it.
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Old July 21 2008, 01:37 AM   #336
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

Scout101 wrote: View Post
CaptainCanada wrote: View Post
S. Gomez wrote: View Post
And I'm really, really glad Gordon isn't dead! I have to admit they got me with that one.
Yeah, I didn't see that one coming either; which was weird, looking back, because intellectually I knew Gordon couldn't possibly be dead, but the movies old me on it subjectively.
wasn't the most obvious part that Commissioner Gordon hadn't been promoted to Commissioner yet? For him to die Lt. Gordon wouldn't exactly make any sense, would it?
Well, I don't know about anyone else but I ran across a review before I went to see the movie, which said, "No character, no matter how well established in Batman's history, is safe." Hell, I thought they were going to kill Alfred. When I read that, plus many reviews that mentioned the death of a "major character" (I figured everyone already knew Rachel was going to be Joker fodder so I kind of discounted her death), I was pretty ready to be fooled.
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Old July 21 2008, 02:01 AM   #337
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

Just got back from it. Don't really want to read the whole thread, so I will probably repeat a lot of things that have already been established a few days ago. Oh well.

I've been looking forward to this movie for at least 2 years and it did not disappoint. It was a great sequel to a series of films that might go down as new Batman Classics. I'm really having a hard time deciding which movie I liked better, this or Batman Begins, because they really are like reading chapters of a book. The story continued and the quality didn't let up from one movie to the next.

There was so much fun to be had here but I first want to talk about the Joker. Frankly, while I loved this portrayal as the Joker (Much more than Nicholson's I think), I find Ledgers performance somewhat overrated. Not to say that is a bad thing since he did a terrific job, but I wonder what kind of praise he would have gotten if he hadn't tragically passed away earlier this year. It would have been good, but I'm not so sure if it would have been epic as others claim it is. Still, this movie was about Batman vs The Joker, and Bale and Ledger played off each other really well.

I also liked the inclusion of Harvey Dent and Eckhart is slowly becoming one of my favorite actors. He was great as the White Knight, and his transformation into two-face was handled really well.

Nolan has created something here that is much more epic than I could have thought. We get a great character study on what it means to be a hero, and how this movie ends was only appropriate to what the theme was. Harvey says something in this movie that I think summarizes it very well, "You either die a hero, or you live long enough to see yourself the villain."

I'm glad they changed actresses for Rachel, even though both times she seemed more like a distraction than adding anything to the plot. Other than that complaint, Nolan has really done a great job rejuvinating Batman and I can't wait till Number 3. I'm saddened that Ledger won't be part of it because Joker just won't be the same.

Excellent or A
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Old July 21 2008, 02:33 AM   #338
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

davejames wrote: View Post
Hicks wrote: View Post
davejames wrote: View Post
In fact part of me wishes Nolan hadn't played it safe, and had kept Gordon dead.
I don't think "playing it safe" is the right way to put it. It was part of the plot. It's not as if Gordon was really supposed to die, and then "hey, look, he's okay, folks!". That's for Spielberg and War of the Worlds to do.
I don't know, once we see that Gordon is alive, the entire death came across as kind of a cheap and contrived stunt to me-- more for the audience than for The Joker.

You mean to tell me that, with everything ELSE going down, Gordon decides to use The Joker's assassination attempt as a good time to play dead?!? As if his family were somehow high on The Joker's list of targets or something?

I didn't buy it.
Well, with Joker going around using cop's families to turn them against the good guys, it seems logical where if he played dead, he wouldn't have to risk having to chose between Joker's demands and his family.
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Old July 21 2008, 02:34 AM   #339
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

Why not assume that Gordon was simply incapacitated after being shot, and when he awoke in the hospital he ordered that he be declared dead for the sake of his family? Easy enough explanation for me.
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Old July 21 2008, 02:38 AM   #340
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

JacksonArcher wrote: View Post
People cheered and clapped when Gordon re-appeared to capture Joker. I think even the most suspecting people fell for it.
I fell for it for awhile (I was almost in shock when Gordon "died"), but shortly before he reappeared I was thinking that it was most likely a ruse.
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Old July 21 2008, 02:42 AM   #341
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

I knew something was up with the driver of the van because his appearance was so disguised, but I didn't figure out that it was Gordon until he showed up. For much of the chase, I figured it was Joker disguised as a police officer again--until he showed up on the truck.
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Old July 21 2008, 02:47 AM   #342
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

I didn't even think anything special of the cop who was hiding his appearance, I just though he was being professional. The possibility that he was Gordon or one of Joker's men or something like that never entered my mind.
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Old July 21 2008, 03:08 AM   #343
Hobs202
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

Absolutely amazing! The Joker totally owned this movie. He was one of the most chilling villains in movie history. What makes him so scary is that he's a puppet master with no motives, and nothing to gain or lose that Batman can use against him. His actions can't be predicted because he follows no rules. He does what he does just because he can.

And yes, I fully admit that I actually believed that Gordon was killed. The part in which the police inform in his family really bought me off.

Also, I'm thinking that there's a good chance that Two-Face is still alive. First of all, Batman survived the fall. Also, the fact that the coin landed on the "live" side when he fell down hinted that Two-Face may have survived.
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Last edited by Hobs202; July 21 2008 at 03:14 AM.
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Old July 21 2008, 03:20 AM   #344
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

Hobs202 wrote: View Post
First of all, Batman survived the fall. Also, the fact that the coin landed on the "live" side when he fell down hinted that Two-Face may have survived.
Batman was wearing body armour. And the characters certainly don't act like he's alive (their planned coverup makes no provision for dealing with him).
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Old July 21 2008, 03:26 AM   #345
Neroon
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Re: The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

One thing's for sure... I don't recall the level of discussion with "Batman Begins" that I've been seeing with TDK.
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