The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

[Canadave]

Camelopard wrote:

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I think part of the problem is that you want the score to be something that it's not.

Composers like Williams and Elfman both write film music in a Romantic vein, full of the Wagnerian motifs you're calling "themes."

Zimmer and Howard's scores for both of Nolan's Batman movies are far more minimalist.

There is a Batman "theme," and it's quite distinctive, when you hear it. But it's just two long notes in the background, like a hunting horn: naa-NAA. My knowledge of music theory is relatively limited, and my ear is not altogether reliable, but I believe the interval between the two is called a "perfect fourth". It's heavy, slow, and somber.

By comparison, Elfman's six-note Batman theme sounds busy and corny, especially when played quickly, on brass instruments: ba-ba-ba-BAAAT-man...ba-ba-ba-bat...bat-MAN!) It works in the context of Elfman's score, but it would have stood out like a sore thumb in Batman Begins or The Dark Knight.

To me, Elfman's theme evokes Batman rushing around and beating up the bad guys--sock! pow! biff! bam! Whereas those two notes in Zimmer and Howard's theme evoke Batman perched on top of a building, looking down at Gotham City by night, contemplating his next move, or perhaps just brooding about how tortured and emo he is.

Indeed. In fact, Zimmer\Howard have written a score that's firmly in the best tradition of Philip Glass, one of the most renowned composers of the past 50 years or so. It works perfectly for TDK, if you ask me... it's moody and atmospheric, without ever dominating or overshadowing the events on screen, just complementing them perfectly.

One of the great things about it is how a very subtle change can affect the mood of the film. A great example is in Batman Begins, during Batman's first night: right at the end, we get the pan-around shot of Batman on top of the office tower and the score goes from dark and heavy to a single, crescendoing note.

[Terak Rall]

Camelopard wrote:

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There is a Batman "theme," and it's quite distinctive, when you hear it. But it's just two long notes in the background, like a hunting horn: naa-NAA. My knowledge of music theory is relatively limited, and my ear is not altogether reliable, but I believe the interval between the two is called a "perfect fourth". It's heavy, slow, and somber.

As a musician I couldn't let this one slide. It's a minor third, not a perfect fourth.

I loved the movie...but walked out feeling just thoroughly depressed! Was surprised that the theater was only about 20% full for a Friday 11 AM screening...and this is a theater in suburban NY that I've seen PACKED.

[CaptainCanada]

Awesome; really, most of what I have to say has already been said.

They went to pretty ridiculous lengths to avoid naming/showing Barbara Gordon at all; really, I know Nolan dislikes the Batclan, but c'mon, give us something.

The ending, I have to say, I thought was kind of dumb; blame for the deaths isn't a zero sum game; given all the chaos going around, you could pin it on the Joker without breaking a sweat.

[Tom Servo]

I saw it today in IMAX, but I am gonna go again at a normal theater.

EXCEL-FUCKING-LENT!

Thats really all I can say. Now, I am not a Superhero/ Comic Book movie person, I never cared for any of the Spiderman or Superman movies. However, Batman Begins, and now this movie may be one of my favorite movie series. I mean this was not just a good comic book film, this was a goddam good film...period. We were discussing after the film that really, if you removed the Batman element, and just turned it into a cop drama, it would still be a damn good movie.

I must say though I laughed hysterically at the

And kudos to the script and the all the fine actors in it. There was not one cringe worth line or moment in the film

[T'Pers0n]

Bruce accepting responsibility for the murders would work for both Dent's reputation and Batman's. The problem relayed to Batman by Maroni was that no one was scared of him anymore because he wouldn't kill. Now that people think Batman has killed dirty cops and crooks, they would be afraid of him because he may kill again.

[Gryffindorian]

I saw the movie today, but unlike a lot fanboys out there, I wasn't really rabidly excited about seeing the movie. I'm not saying I didn't like it; I thought Chris Nolan did another fine job, with great performances by Christian Bale, the late Heath Ledger, and other fine high-profile actors like Gary Oldman, Morgan Freeman, and Michael Caine.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that I have lukewarm feelings about Nolan's take on Batman. I didn't see Batman Begins in the theater when it came out and only watched it on DVD (and I opted not to buy the DVD). It was good as many viewers and critics described. Nolan gives a much more serious, sometimes dark treatment of the DC hero than did his predecessors, Tim Burton and Joel Schumacher, whose films were fantastical and whimsical in execution, or as other people would put it, "camp." But call me silly and old-fashioned for actually having enjoyed watching Arnold Schwarzenegger and Uma Thurman as Mr. Freeze and Poison Ivy, respectively.

The Dark Knight was a bit too long for my taste, and the plot wasn't really straightforward, but for a movie over two and half hours long, the pacing was good enough to keep you from looking at your watch. If you go with children to see the movie, you may hear them saying, "What's Batman doing in Hong Kong?" Of course, the simple answer would be, "He's trying to catch some bad guys." But you know there's more to that. You have to consider the whole mob/organized crime dynamics in Gotham City, how the Joker fits in and what his motivations really are, and how District Attorney Harvey Dent works to put away every criminal in the city. The interpersonal relationships and communications become complex as allegiances shift, motivations change, and deception is unraveled left and right.

This, like the first Nolan film, is a smart, high-caliber movie that makes you think and takes itself seriously ... way too seriously for a superhero movie. There is a lot to process, and sometimes you lose the sense of enjoyment.

I'm torn between an A- and a B+.

[Aragorn]

CaptainCanada wrote:

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They went to pretty ridiculous lengths to avoid naming/showing Barbara Gordon at all; really, I know Nolan dislikes the Batclan, but c'mon, give us something.

Actually, his wife's name is Barbara. Meaning his daughter's name isn't.

[CaptainCanada]

Aragorn wrote:

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Actually, his wife's name is Barbara. Meaning his daughter's name isn't.

No, his daughter isn't named at all; we just know his wife is named Barbara, which is the same as it was in the comics; Batgirl-Barbara is named after her.

[S. Gomez]

Just got home from the theater.

Honestly, what can I say? I have absolutely no idea how to describe it. Last night, I watched Batman Begins again to get myself pumped up. I mused afterwards on how good it felt to watch a movie where you absolutely wouldn't change a thing, where everything was simply too perfect for words. Let's just say... I was doing the same thing on the ride home tonight.

And I'm really, really glad Gordon isn't dead! I have to admit they got me with that one.

[CaptainCanada]

S. Gomez wrote:

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And I'm really, really glad Gordon isn't dead! I have to admit they got me with that one.

Yeah, I didn't see that one coming either; which was weird, looking back, because intellectually I knew Gordon couldn't possibly be dead, but the movies old me on it subjectively.

[Thespeckledkiwi]

Actually I believe in Batman Begins, Barbara is the name of his daughter as well.

[firehawk12]

I *loved* the OST. The fact that it was so subtle fit the tone of the movie so well.

[Bad Bishop]

Trekker4747 wrote:

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I seriously think that if Jesus Himself doesn't come out of the screen at the end of this movie and gives everyone in the theater blow jobs then a lot of people are going to be disapointed.

Trekker, blasphemer.

Trekker, there was a time when you acted so piously, voicing consternation at the irreverent use of the Lord's name. And now you make crude remarks like that. Tsk, tsk.

[davejames]

Well as someone who didn't care for Begins and is a lifelong admirer of the '89 movie..... I gotta say TDK was really damn good. The story was a huge improvement over the one in Begins (even though it did lose me a few times, lol), and of course Ledger's Joker is absolutely perfect (and yes, much better than Nicholson's hammy version).

But still... while I agree with all the accolades, I'm a bit torn. As good as this movie is, this didn't really feel enough like a Batman movie to me. This was just a really good crime movie... with a few appearances by a guy in a batsuit.

Maybe I'm just being childish, but I'll always prefer the more colorful superhero/comic book world of the Burton movies and BTAS-- where there was still something fantastic about Batman and his world (and his villains), even if he wasn't your traditional, super-powered superhero.

As great an accomplishment as TDK is, I just think Nolan took the character a little too far from that comic book world, and what made me love Batman in the first place.

[Sheep]

Coming from someone who really doesn't like superhero movies due to the "paint by numbers" plots of 99% of them, this movie makes just about all previous superhero efforts look like steaming piles of monkey dung.

I went in completely spoiler-free with no expectations and was throroughly entertained for 2.5 hours. Nice.