The Dark Knight - Grading & Discussion

[Trekker4747]

Well if this Batman has a theme it's not great enough for me to know it. Look at Indiana Jones, Superman, James Bond all have iconic, recognisable, grand themes.

The same can't really be said about this Batman mostly becuase I think the music and score is uninspired.

I like the USE of music in this movie, the action scenes aren't overblown with it, infact, the music is almost absent in the action scenes, but a great, grand, theme is needed for Batman.

Straining to think about I think I can scarely hear it my head but it's not something grand and awesome that you can hum/vocalize out loud like Superman's theme or Indy's.

[Kaijufan]

flavaflav wrote:

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It just really dragged for that last half. The ending was also bleh and seemed really stupid to me (the whole Batsy on the run thing for murder, just dumb and made no sense no matter how you slice it).

I would imagine the reason Batman took the fall for Dent was because Dent took the fall for Batman earlier in the movie.

[Trekker4747]

Kaijufan wrote:

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I would imagine the reason Batman took the fall for Dent was because Dent took the fall for Batman earlier in the movie.

Dent's reputation had to be maintained in order to keep the convicted cons/mafia in prison. If what Dent did as Two-Face got out then his credibility would be harmed and it'd endanger the convictions on the mafia guys.

Batman had to take a "fall" with his reputation to maintain Harvey's (and possibly as "payment" for taking a life.)

[Timby]

Trekker4747 wrote:

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Look at Indiana Jones

1980s.

Superman

1970s.

James Bond

1960s.

but a great, grand, theme is needed for Batman.

Why?

Much like cinematography, directing, acting and just about everything else associated with filmmaking, scoring has evolved with the times. Operatic scores such as John Williams' Star Wars and Indiana Jones, Jerry Goldsmith's Star Trek: The Motion Picture and even Danny Elfman's own Batman (which is quality music but an absolutely terrible score), are elements of a filmmaking age that has passed by. I don't think that a superhero movie has a pre-requisite of a "great, grand theme" in order to work -- just look at Iron Man, which had no memorable scoring whatsoever, but worked perfectly.

[DarthPipes]

Harry Potter has a distinctive score too, thanks again to John Williams. But Batman not having a distinctive score doesn't bother me in the least. It seems a minor nitpick if nothing else.

Little things I liked...the exchange between Bruce and Alfred where Alfred said he'd probably be arrested once Bruce revealed himself and Bruce joking that he planned to blame everything on him. I like that how even facing such a serious situation, they could still find some humor in it.

Another thing I found interesting was Batman's excursion to Hong Kong. I know the first part of Batman Begins took place overseas but it was definitely interesting to take him out of Gotham for a little while. Effective.

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

I give it a B. In some ways BB was better. I thought there was a lot of talking. it went from one important plot point to another rather abruptly. We heard that Dent was the white knight-like saviour over six times.

What happened the court rooms... they looked like sets compared to the first film...and Wayne Tower was completely different.

I was not a phane of the donar-vision thing at the end...nor did I like the bat-pod... I thought the tumbler was good because it seemed to be real vehicle. I doubt it was designed with a stupid motor cycle in it.


But the film worked on a lot of levels. For someone who had no philosphy, Joker had a lot of interesting things to say. I liked that

Bale looked thin and uninterested in this film. a bit detatched. Also it seemed that Dent had become more important as a character. I'm not a Two Face fan, but the story came off better for the character than I expected. Still those burns were so severe and Dent didn't act like he was in that much pain after a while. After a while, it looked like makeup.

[nx1701g]

YYZ wrote:

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and Wayne Tower was completely different.

After Bruce took over there were changes and updates made to his company.

I was not a phane of the donar-vision thing at the end...nor did I like the bat-pod... I thought the tumbler was good because it seemed to be real vehicle. I doubt it was designed with a stupid motor cycle in it.

They claimed that an escape system was designed into it in the first film. I didn't have a problem with it.

[Crusher Disciple]

Trekker4747 wrote:

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I just got back from seeing it again. The movie is just as awesome the second time as it was the first. Also it allowed me to pick up on more things.

My only problem, still, is that I don't like Bale's Batman voice and I don't think it is entirely his fault it sounds like it's being heavly tweaked in post.

It's just too much, too strong, and too intense. It's something that really, really, REALLY needs to be fixed. I will agree, though, that Bale is a very good Batman/Bruce otherwise.

The whole raspy thing? Me, too. I keep wondering how sore his vocal cords were after each take.

I loved it. Saw it in IMAX with about 300 of my (now) closest friends. Got in line at 11:30 for the 12pm showing. I was so far back in line, I had to take a seat up front.

The first guy in line (insert joke about him never seeing a grown woman naked here) got in line at 9am when the museum opened its doors.

[Manticore]

Wayne Tower threw me at first, but upon reflection, it's quite likely that they moved after the last building got a train run through it. With the way that the train took out so many of the supports, it wouldn't surprise me if the building was condemned.

I'll admit that I was surprised that Bruce's girlfriend at the beginning of the movie could speak English. I was put strongly in mind with his girlfriend in "Batman: Year One" who couldn't.

[Goliath]

Trekker4747 wrote:

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Well if this Batman has a theme it's not great enough for me to know it. Look at Indiana Jones, Superman, James Bond all have iconic, recognisable, grand themes.

The same can't really be said about this Batman mostly becuase I think the music and score is uninspired.

I like the USE of music in this movie, the action scenes aren't overblown with it, infact, the music is almost absent in the action scenes, but a great, grand, theme is needed for Batman.

Straining to think about I think I can scarely hear it my head but it's not something grand and awesome that you can hum/vocalize out loud like Superman's theme or Indy's.

I think part of the problem is that you want the score to be something that it's not.

Composers like Williams and Elfman both write film music in a Romantic vein, full of the Wagnerian motifs you're calling "themes."

Zimmer and Howard's scores for both of Nolan's Batman movies are far more minimalist.

There is a Batman "theme," and it's quite distinctive, when you hear it. But it's just two long notes in the background, like a hunting horn: naa-NAA. My knowledge of music theory is relatively limited, and my ear is not altogether reliable, but I believe the interval between the two is called a "perfect fourth". It's heavy, slow, and somber.

By comparison, Elfman's six-note Batman theme sounds busy and corny, especially when played quickly, on brass instruments: ba-ba-ba-BAAAT-man...ba-ba-ba-bat...bat-MAN! It works in the context of Elfman's score, but it would have stood out like a sore thumb in Batman Begins or The Dark Knight.

To me, Elfman's theme evokes Batman rushing around and beating up the bad guys--sock! pow! biff! bam! Whereas those two notes in Zimmer and Howard's theme evoke Batman perched on top of a building, looking down at Gotham City by night, contemplating his next move, or perhaps just brooding about how tortured and emo he is.

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

Camelopard wrote:

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I think part of the problem is that you want the score to be something that it's not.

Composers like Williams and Elfman both write film music in a Romantic vein, full of the Wagnerian motifs you're calling "themes."

Zimmer and Howard's scores for both of Nolan's Batman movies are far more minimalist.

There is a Batman "theme," and it's quite distinctive, when you hear it. But it's just two long notes in the background, like a hunting horn: naa-NAA. My knowledge of music theory is relatively limited, and my ear is not altogether reliable, but I believe the interval between the two is called a "perfect fourth". It's heavy, slow, and somber.

By comparison, Elfman's six-note Batman theme sounds busy and corny, especially when played quickly, on brass instruments: ba-ba-ba-BAAAT-man...ba-ba-ba-bat...bat-MAN!) It works in the context of Elfman's score, but it would have stood out like a sore thumb in Batman Begins or The Dark Knight.

To me, Elfman's theme evokes Batman rushing around and beating up the bad guys--sock! pow! biff! bam! Whereas those two notes in Zimmer and Howard's theme evoke Batman perched on top of a building, looking down at Gotham City by night, contemplating his next move, or perhaps just brooding about how tortured and emo he is.

I agree with you, save for the fact that you use the word "emo" at the end. That word drives me, well, bats.

[Goliath]

YYZ wrote:

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I agree with you, save for the fact that you use the word "emo" at the end. That word drives me, well, bats.

Why so serious?

[Garrett]

I saw the Dark Knight this morning at the local Imax. I've been looking forward to seeing a sequel ever since Batman Begins. Though, oddly enough I never felt the same sort of excitement for the movie that I've seen on display from other fans online. I thought it was excellent.

As mentioned by others, Bale, Oldman, and Eckhart all put in excellent performances. Ledger was great, of course, but Gordon's story here ended up sort of stealing the show for me by the end. Especially his lines about Batman as the Dark Knight.

I know I'm in the minority, but I liked Katie Holmes as Rachel Dawes, and was disappointed to see her character recast. She's hot, too, unlike Gyllenhall. Maggie Gyllenhall did all right with the character, though.

I went with my brother, his wife, and my mother. I was really suprised that my mother enjoyed it as much as she did. She kept going on about the movie quite awhile after leaving the theater.

Anyway, I hope to see the movie again in the next week or two. Looking forward to the next one, as well.

[Flying Spaghetti Monster]

I agree that Holmes wasn't as bad as everyone says, and I personally like her better than the new actress. Plus recasting is always tough. The new actress is much bigger... and remember the poster for BB where Batman is carrying Rachel in his arms.. I doubt he could do so with the new actress...

[cardinal biggles]

sidious618 wrote:

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Ledger was great but I do feel that he is overshadowing the others a bit.

To be fair, Ledger's performance still probably would have overshadowed the others even if he hadn't died. Even before his death, most of the buzz regarding The Dark Knight was about how disturbingly awesome he was.

Regarding some of the criticisms about the music: as much as I love Danny Elfman's score with its easily recognizable and hummable theme song, the minimalist approach taken by Zimmer and Howard works here. It works with this kind of film. Is it catchy and hummable? Not really, though I do find that it kind of sticks in my brain. I'm certainly not going to buy the soundtrack to either Begins or Dark Knight, but nor do I see the need for so much hate for it.