Moore On 'Star Trek' Clichés And 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine'

TrekToday · June 22 2008, 03:37 AM

For writer Ron Moore, taking 'Star Trek' into unexpected, sometimes darker directions made for a better show.

As reported by TrekMovie.com, working on Star Trek: The Next Generation meant trying to be original and to avoid the usual clichés. "There was a bit of fight," said Moore. "I was sort of always fighting to take stories into darker directions or to go out on more ambiguous notes or to make the Enterprise lose occasionally. A lot of it was just in service of doing things different. I think I was looking for molds to break. We were doing so many episodes a year, twenty-six a year which right now seems unfathomable.

"You were doing so many episodes," said Moore. "We used to have this big board that were the 'Star Trek' clichés. After every pitch session, because we were taking endless amounts of writers coming to pitch, the writers would all sort of gleefully go to the cliché board and we would log in how many of the Trek clichés we heard that day: Data becomes man, Data becomes god, they discover a planet and the planet is alive, you know there were just all these categories and we would just tally each one to keep ourselves sane. Because of that and because there were so many Trek clichés and so many patterns doing shows, I was always looking for the show that was different."

Moore enjoyed the fact that Star Trek: Deep Space Nine went in a different direction than the other Star Trek series. "We kind of prided ourselves on being the bastard stepchildren of the Trek franchise," he said. "We were the only one that was truly different. Every other series was essentially about a starship boldly going somewhere, and we weren't. We were proud of that. And we were kind of proud of that fact that we didn’t get the same publicity and that we were the forgotten ones. It was something we sort of wore as this badge of honor among the writers."

To read more, head to the article located here.

Augustus · June 22 2008, 04:37 AM

Very true Mr. Moore.
That is why DS9 is my favorite. Nothing else like it among Trek. Certain episodes of TNG, may seem like TOS, may seem like VOY, may seem like ENT. But rarely does an episode of DS9 seem familiar.

Did the Enterprise in TNG ever lose really? The only time I can think of was Data's Day...

Norrin Radd · June 22 2008, 05:46 AM

This is spot on. To me, Voy and some of ENT was sooo much like TNG...just with different crews, i.e. going from one planet to the next...meeting humans with funny foreheads...I grew so damn tired of it.

In contrast, DS9 wasn't always great, but it stayed creatively fresh and true to its "gunsmoke in space" premise.

In fact, I found many of the weaker episodes of DS9 were when it strayed from that premise and some of the stronger episodes of Voy and ENT were when they stayed true to their premises, which unfortunately wasn't often...

MattJC · June 22 2008, 05:55 AM

Norrin Radd wrote:

This is spot on. To me, Voy and some of ENT was sooo much like TNG...just with different crews, i.e. going from one planet to the next...

Um, isn't that the point of Star Trek?
To see out new life and explore new worlds?

MattJC · June 22 2008, 05:55 AM

Not to sit around whining about how life sucks?

number6 · June 22 2008, 07:09 AM

MattJC wrote:

Not to sit around whining about how life sucks?

That would be nuBSG.

MyCylon · June 22 2008, 11:05 AM

^
Nope.

I agree with Moore's assessments and views.

number6 · June 22 2008, 03:33 PM

Justtoyourleft wrote:

^
Nope.

I agree with Moore's assessments and views.

I agree with some of them, while others are just a lot of ego and bluster.

I'm still waiting an answer to this question I posted upthread:
Do you think he'd be this smug about his opinions of Trek if nuBSG hadn't been as successful?

no one seems to have an opinion either way?

ancient · June 22 2008, 03:52 PM

MattJC wrote:

Norrin Radd wrote:

This is spot on. To me, Voy and some of ENT was sooo much like TNG...just with different crews, i.e. going from one planet to the next...

Um, isn't that the point of Star Trek?
To see out new life and explore new worlds?

I always thought the point was to be entertaining, something DS9 was far more than VGR or ENT. Or even TNG, in retrospect.

Besides, they did a lot of strange new world stuff on DS9, and explored them far deeper than the throwaway forehead-of-the-week aliens we often got in the other shows.

Not to sit around whining about how life sucks?

Ah, you never watched the show then. Nevermind. There may have been a few very natural gripes early on in like the first 5 episodes, but that was part of the 'finding your place' theme.

The Old Mixer · June 22 2008, 03:55 PM

MattJC wrote:

Um, isn't that the point of Star Trek?
To see out new life and explore new worlds?

The problem is that except for DS9, they didn't apply that philosophy to the making of the show. Modern Trek became formulaic, and the formula was pretty damn tiring after 500 episodes. TOS was an innovative show in its time; and so was TNG, a fact that's lost in light of it having established the long-since worn-out formulae. VGR and ENT were copies of copies (of copies).

ancient · June 22 2008, 04:01 PM

number6 wrote:

Justtoyourleft wrote:

^
Nope.

I agree with Moore's assessments and views.

I agree with some of them, while others are just a lot of ego and bluster.

I'm still waiting an answer to this question I posted upthread:

??? What?

You didn't post any question in this thread, maybe you're thinking of a different thread?

Do you think he'd be this smug about his opinions of Trek if nuBSG hadn't been as successful?

no one seems to have an opinion either way?

Define 'successful'. nuBSG is successful in that it survived 4 years on the SciFi network on miniscule ratings and a devoted fanbase.

I just don't see how nuBSG figures into this at all. I don't think he suddenly became proud of his work on DS9 because he got a Lucas Powah Rush from running his own show.

RobertScorpio · June 22 2008, 04:50 PM

I agree totally...his work on DS9 speaks volumes of what this guy could do LONG before BSG came along...And if he has a ego, well then what the hell is wrong with that??? Other people in the TREK pathos have them too...

Rob
Scorpio

Broccoli · June 22 2008, 06:17 PM

Personally, I liked Moore's work on DS9 (although, his fixation on the Klingons really killed that race), but in every interview with him I read that asks him about Trek, I really get the impression that he feels that Trek is very beneath him and that he was the best writer ever on Star Trek. I don't know if he really feels like that, but that's the impression I get. Even others on Trek with ego (such as The Shat), still come off as Trek was good.

ancient wrote:

Define 'successful'. nuBSG is successful in that it survived 4 years on the SciFi network on miniscule ratings and a devoted fanbase.

I would define successful as that he was able to do what he wanted to do with the show and it met critical praise. I admit, I don't watch BSG, but from what I can tell from others, I will give Moore credit that he doesn't seem to sell out to reach a wider audience by going to the lowest common denominator like, say, Andromeda.

number6 · June 22 2008, 06:33 PM

ancient wrote:

Define 'successful'. nuBSG is successful in that it survived 4 years on the SciFi network on miniscule ratings and a devoted fanbase.

My point is that Moore wouldn't be bitterly dissing the shows that made him if nuBSG tanked after six episodes.

Pioneer · June 22 2008, 07:36 PM

Although TNG is my favorite series of Star Trek, my favorite character is Garak from DS9.

I don't understand the cliché board. If they were the writers, then who was pitching all those stories? Guest writers?

June 22 2008, 03:37 AM	#1
TrekToday Rear Admiral	Moore On 'Star Trek' Clichés And 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' For writer Ron Moore, taking 'Star Trek' into unexpected, sometimes darker directions made for a better show. As reported by TrekMovie.com, working on Star Trek: The Next Generation meant trying to be original and to avoid the usual clichés. "There was a bit of fight," said Moore. "I was sort of always fighting to take stories into darker directions or to go out on more ambiguous notes or to make the Enterprise lose occasionally. A lot of it was just in service of doing things different. I think I was looking for molds to break. We were doing so many episodes a year, twenty-six a year which right now seems unfathomable. "You were doing so many episodes," said Moore. "We used to have this big board that were the 'Star Trek' clichés. After every pitch session, because we were taking endless amounts of writers coming to pitch, the writers would all sort of gleefully go to the cliché board and we would log in how many of the Trek clichés we heard that day: Data becomes man, Data becomes god, they discover a planet and the planet is alive, you know there were just all these categories and we would just tally each one to keep ourselves sane. Because of that and because there were so many Trek clichés and so many patterns doing shows, I was always looking for the show that was different." Moore enjoyed the fact that Star Trek: Deep Space Nine went in a different direction than the other Star Trek series. "We kind of prided ourselves on being the bastard stepchildren of the Trek franchise," he said. "We were the only one that was truly different. Every other series was essentially about a starship boldly going somewhere, and we weren't. We were proud of that. And we were kind of proud of that fact that we didn’t get the same publicity and that we were the forgotten ones. It was something we sort of wore as this badge of honor among the writers." To read more, head to the article located here.

June 22 2008, 04:37 AM	#2
Augustus Fleet Captain Location: Sadly, not in Texas	Re: Moore On 'Star Trek' Clichés And 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' Very true Mr. Moore. That is why DS9 is my favorite. Nothing else like it among Trek. Certain episodes of TNG, may seem like TOS, may seem like VOY, may seem like ENT. But rarely does an episode of DS9 seem familiar. Did the Enterprise in TNG ever lose really? The only time I can think of was Data's Day... __________________ I don't know... I didn't go.

June 22 2008, 05:46 AM	#3
Norrin Radd Vice Admiral	Re: Moore On 'Star Trek' Clichés And 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' This is spot on. To me, Voy and some of ENT was sooo much like TNG...just with different crews, i.e. going from one planet to the next...meeting humans with funny foreheads...I grew so damn tired of it. In contrast, DS9 wasn't always great, but it stayed creatively fresh and true to its "gunsmoke in space" premise. In fact, I found many of the weaker episodes of DS9 were when it strayed from that premise and some of the stronger episodes of Voy and ENT were when they stayed true to their premises, which unfortunately wasn't often...

June 22 2008, 05:55 AM	#5
MattJC Fleet Captain	Re: Moore On 'Star Trek' Clichés And 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' Not to sit around whining about how life sucks?

June 22 2008, 11:05 AM	#7
MyCylon Rear Admiral Location: Am I a Cylon?	Re: Moore On 'Star Trek' Clichés And 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' ^ Nope. I agree with Moore's assessments and views. __________________ "For everyone lost in the endlessly multiplicating realities of the modern world, remember: Philip K. Dick got there first" - Terry Gilliam

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June 22 2008, 04:50 PM	#12
RobertScorpio Pariah Location: San Diego	Re: Moore On 'Star Trek' Clichés And 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' I agree totally...his work on DS9 speaks volumes of what this guy could do LONG before BSG came along...And if he has a ego, well then what the hell is wrong with that??? Other people in the TREK pathos have them too... Rob Scorpio

June 22 2008, 07:36 PM	#15
Pioneer Captain	Re: Moore On 'Star Trek' Clichés And 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' Although TNG is my favorite series of Star Trek, my favorite character is Garak from DS9. I don't understand the cliché board. If they were the writers, then who was pitching all those stories? Guest writers? __________________ Looking to build Element #137 (Feynmanium)