(UEFA) Football Thread - Football not Soccer - Page 15

TheArsenal · May 30 2008, 05:50 PM

NX_01 Mark wrote:

Hermiod wrote:

If by "homegrown" you mean developed by the club (i.e. they played for the club between the ages of say 16 and 18) but regardless of nationality then I totally support that. Of course, I am biased because at Arsenal we have a number of such players and more coming through.

But you can't do it by nationality, not in Europe.

I don't support propping up bad players just because they've got the right passport. Competition is what makes players better. Even David Bentley agrees on that point.

If Arsenal can't field 4 English players in a 18 man squad (don't have to start or play) then we might as well scrap international football in England. I don't agree with Blatter but the clubs need to do more and I can't see why a compromise cannot be achieved.

First off, it's an attack on the Premier League. Other leagues use far more "home grown" players and the rising dominance of the English clubs alarms the anti-English sentiment of FIFA, and Blatter in particular. The insulting, but accurate, implication is fielding more English players will bring down the quality of the big sides.

Secondly, Hermiod makes a point. It's less about English than "home grown". Most believe this will harm the Gunners the most. Not true. As soon as Blatter began belching out this noxious idea, and a little before, Wenger has been planning for it. Arsenal buying 16 and 17 years olds a ways from the first team, looks less head scratching when you consider it in light of the potential rule change.

Hermiod · May 30 2008, 10:36 PM

NX_01 Mark wrote:

If Arsenal can't field 4 English players in a 18 man squad (don't have to start or play) then we might as well scrap international football in England. I don't agree with Blatter but the clubs need to do more and I can't see why a compromise cannot be achieved.

We can, but you tell me Justin Hoyte deserves to be in the Arsenal side more than Bacary Sagna.

International football is artificial. People only care about it once every two years when England scrape in to a tournament. They scraped in to Euro 92 and failed to qualify for World Cup 94 when most players in the Premier League were English.

Arsenal do more to develop young players than anyone, we mix local kids up with kids from all over the world.

TheArsenal wrote:

First off, it's an attack on the Premier League. Other leagues use far more "home grown" players and the rising dominance of the English clubs alarms the anti-English sentiment of FIFA, and Blatter in particular. The insulting, but accurate, implication is fielding more English players will bring down the quality of the big sides.

The fact that there's been an English side in the last four Champions League finals is scaring the crap out of FIFA. We're back. The last attempt to kill us by kicking us out didn't work, we didn't stay down. We dominated in the 80's and we're dominating again.

Secondly, Hermiod makes a point. It's less about English than "home grown". Most believe this will harm the Gunners the most. Not true. As soon as Blatter began belching out this noxious idea, and a little before, Wenger has been planning for it. Arsenal buying 16 and 17 years olds a ways from the first team, looks less head scratching when you consider it in light of the potential rule change.

FIFA will be in for a scare when the likes of Jack Wilshire, Henri Lansbury, Mark Randall, Jay Simpson, Paul Rodgers and Kieran Gibbs break in to the first team next season.

Roger Wilco · May 30 2008, 10:42 PM

Why does the FIFA even care about club football?

Hermiod · May 30 2008, 10:48 PM

^Because they govern all football, not just Internationals.

Another point. They want African football to develop. How, exactly, are they going to do that when clubs like Arsenal who have brought through players who are now some of Africa's best aren't allowed to play them anymore ?

African clubs, sadly, don't have the facilities to do it themselves. I hope one day they will because their players are a gift to football, in my opinion.

Daedalus12 · May 30 2008, 10:49 PM

Which is why I suggested there should be a divorce between FIFA and club football.

Hermiod · May 30 2008, 10:54 PM

Daedalus12 wrote:

Which is why I suggested there should be a divorce between FIFA and club football.

Yes, and I don't disagree.

TheArsenal · May 30 2008, 11:16 PM

The trouble with a divorce between club and international football is the clubs will run all over the international game, the non-European confederations in particular will suffer. They try to do that now, every chance they get. Without a body controlling both club and country football, I doubt seriously a player would ever be released for say, the African Cup of Nations.

The problem, as I see it, is not FIFA itself. It is the people who run it. They are very uncomfortable with the shift in power from international to club football where they can exercise less control. Add to this power shift the fact they are even more uncomfortable with the 4 of the biggest clubs in the world being situated in England. And even more worrisome for the pinheads in Zürich is the largest emerging football markets, Asia and North America, naturally gravitate to the English game. More treasure into the Premier league's coffers. More dominance of English clubs.

But instead of learning to live and grow with it, they fight it stupidly with such mad measures as this 6+5.

Daedalus12 · May 31 2008, 12:07 AM

TheArsenal wrote:

The trouble with a divorce between club and international football is the clubs will run all over the international game, the non-European confederations in particular will suffer. They try to do that now, every chance they get. Without a body controlling both club and country football, I doubt seriously a player would ever be released for say, the African Cup of Nations.

The World Cup and the Euros won't be ran over. The same can be said about the Asian Cup, the Copa America, and the Gold Cup. I think a divorce would be good as it allows both sides to negotiate more instead of just FIFA dominating over everyone. The African Nations Cup should be moved to every 4 years. FIFA should also compensate the clubs for any player on international duty which has caused the said player to miss at leat one club match.

The problem, as I see it, is not FIFA itself. It is the people who run it. They are very uncomfortable with the shift in power from international to club football where they can exercise less control. Add to this power shift the fact they are even more uncomfortable with the 4 of the biggest clubs in the world being situated in England. And even more worrisome for the pinheads in Zürich is the largest emerging football markets, Asia and North America, naturally gravitate to the English game. More treasure into the Premier league's coffers. More dominance of English clubs.

Do you really want a massive world government style sporting body wielding a hammer over the state of your domestic football leagues? There is an old saying: "power (and money in this case) corrupts all" and FIFA has way too much power.

For me FIFA is nothing more than a monstrosity. They are worse than the U.N. in the sense that they actually have great power.

Jax · May 31 2008, 05:25 PM

Didn't see this one coming...

David Beckham has been named England captain for Sunday's friendly against Trinidad & Tobago

Don't see the point, I mean I like Beckham and think he should start every ENG game but he won't take the captaincy back full time and nor should he have it. Capello should of let Barry have it IMO though its a two horse race between Ferdinand & Terry anyway.

Daedalus12 · May 31 2008, 05:58 PM

I don't see Becks as a permanent captain. Don Fabio probably just want to douse out the burning speculations. There has been some rampant conflagrations in the media about Rio being the new permanent captain on the flimsy evidence that he is the only one from the Chelsea/Manc camp who is traveling to T&T. Imagine the firestorm if Rio is the captain in Sunday's game.

By Calcio tradition though Becks should be the captain since he is the most senior and has the most caps.

Jax · May 31 2008, 06:14 PM

^ Yeh I couldn't believe people saying Rio will be capt because he's taken him there. Only reason Rio is there because we need some experience at the back, same reason for Becks to come.

I think the starting line up will be...

Hart

Johnson, Ferdinand, Woodgate, Lescott

Beckham, Gerrard, Barry, Young

Ashton, Agbonlahor

I think we will see Wheater, Huddlestone and Walcott playsome part as well.

Hermiod · June 2 2008, 02:31 PM

Two bits of news.

Jose Mourinho has been confirmed as Inter Milan's new head coach.

Gretna FC's administrators are now trying to sell the stadium to parties "outside football" and have said that they cannot give a guarantee that the club will fulfill its fixtures next season. They expect the SFL to expell them from the league within the next few days.

Daedalus12 · June 2 2008, 05:11 PM

According to Tutto Mercato Web E'too is going to Inter.

The Habs Fan · June 2 2008, 09:10 PM

NX_01 Mark wrote:

Didn't see this one coming...

David Beckham has been named England captain for Sunday's friendly against Trinidad & Tobago

Don't see the point, I mean I like Beckham and think he should start every ENG game but he won't take the captaincy back full time and nor should he have it. Capello should of let Barry have it IMO though its a two horse race between Ferdinand & Terry anyway.

I think the only reason that Beckham has been named Captain for this match is because he's Jack Warner's favourite player. And the only reason why they're in T&T is to win Jack Warner's 2018 vote.

Hermiod · June 3 2008, 02:00 PM

Two more bits of news.

Manchester United have agreed a fee with Cardiff for Aaron Ramsey, but two other unnamed clubs have also made bids.

Gretna FC have now resigned from the Scottish Football League, effectively ending their existence as a football club.

May 30 2008, 10:42 PM	#213
Roger Wilco Admiral	Re: (UEFA) Football Thread - Football not Soccer Why does the FIFA even care about club football? __________________ Don't be a douche.

May 30 2008, 10:48 PM	#214
Hermiod Admiral	Re: (UEFA) Football Thread - Football not Soccer ^Because they govern all football, not just Internationals. Another point. They want African football to develop. How, exactly, are they going to do that when clubs like Arsenal who have brought through players who are now some of Africa's best aren't allowed to play them anymore ? African clubs, sadly, don't have the facilities to do it themselves. I hope one day they will because their players are a gift to football, in my opinion.

May 30 2008, 10:49 PM	#215
Daedalus12 Rear Admiral Location: South West France!	Re: (UEFA) Football Thread - Football not Soccer Which is why I suggested there should be a divorce between FIFA and club football. __________________ "Bennett & Meyer are obviously the Ceti Eels introduced into the collective brain of Trekdom, leading to easy manipulation (TWOK), impaired cognitive functionality (TSFS), drooling (TVH), agonized death (TFF) and extended post-mortem twitching (TUC).

May 30 2008, 11:16 PM	#217
TheArsenal Rear Admiral Location: Sunny Southern California	Re: (UEFA) Football Thread - Football not Soccer The trouble with a divorce between club and international football is the clubs will run all over the international game, the non-European confederations in particular will suffer. They try to do that now, every chance they get. Without a body controlling both club and country football, I doubt seriously a player would ever be released for say, the African Cup of Nations. The problem, as I see it, is not FIFA itself. It is the people who run it. They are very uncomfortable with the shift in power from international to club football where they can exercise less control. Add to this power shift the fact they are even more uncomfortable with the 4 of the biggest clubs in the world being situated in England. And even more worrisome for the pinheads in Zürich is the largest emerging football markets, Asia and North America, naturally gravitate to the English game. More treasure into the Premier league's coffers. More dominance of English clubs. But instead of learning to live and grow with it, they fight it stupidly with such mad measures as this 6+5. __________________ "What's your name?" "F* you! That's my name. You know why mister? 'Cause you drove a Hyundai to get here tonight. I drove an eighty thousand dollar BMW. That's** my name."

May 31 2008, 05:58 PM	#220
Daedalus12 Rear Admiral Location: South West France!	Re: (UEFA) Football Thread - Football not Soccer I don't see Becks as a permanent captain. Don Fabio probably just want to douse out the burning speculations. There has been some rampant conflagrations in the media about Rio being the new permanent captain on the flimsy evidence that he is the only one from the Chelsea/Manc camp who is traveling to T&T. Imagine the firestorm if Rio is the captain in Sunday's game. By Calcio tradition though Becks should be the captain since he is the most senior and has the most caps. __________________ "Bennett & Meyer are obviously the Ceti Eels introduced into the collective brain of Trekdom, leading to easy manipulation (TWOK), impaired cognitive functionality (TSFS), drooling (TVH), agonized death (TFF) and extended post-mortem twitching (TUC).

STAR TREK

CSI

ABOUT US

May 31 2008, 06:14 PM	#221
Jax Admiral Location: The United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland	Re: (UEFA) Football Thread - Football not Soccer ^ Yeh I couldn't believe people saying Rio will be capt because he's taken him there. Only reason Rio is there because we need some experience at the back, same reason for Becks to come. I think the starting line up will be... Hart Johnson, Ferdinand, Woodgate, Lescott Beckham, Gerrard, Barry, Young Ashton, Agbonlahor I think we will see Wheater, Huddlestone and Walcott playsome part as well. __________________ Brave (B) Great & Powerful Oz (B-) Hunger Games (B-) American Reunion (B) Milk (B-) The Insider (B+) The Rainmaker (B-) God Bless America (B-) It's Kind of a Funny Story (B-) Iron Man 3 (B+) Star Trek Into Darkness (A-)

June 2 2008, 02:31 PM	#222
Hermiod Admiral	Re: (UEFA) Football Thread - Football not Soccer Two bits of news. Jose Mourinho has been confirmed as Inter Milan's new head coach. Gretna FC's administrators are now trying to sell the stadium to parties "outside football" and have said that they cannot give a guarantee that the club will fulfill its fixtures next season. They expect the SFL to expell them from the league within the next few days.

June 2 2008, 05:11 PM	#223
Daedalus12 Rear Admiral Location: South West France!	Re: (UEFA) Football Thread - Football not Soccer According to Tutto Mercato Web E'too is going to Inter. __________________ "Bennett & Meyer are obviously the Ceti Eels introduced into the collective brain of Trekdom, leading to easy manipulation (TWOK), impaired cognitive functionality (TSFS), drooling (TVH), agonized death (TFF) and extended post-mortem twitching (TUC).

June 3 2008, 02:00 PM	#225
Hermiod Admiral	Re: (UEFA) Football Thread - Football not Soccer Two more bits of news. Manchester United have agreed a fee with Cardiff for Aaron Ramsey, but two other unnamed clubs have also made bids. Gretna FC have now resigned from the Scottish Football League, effectively ending their existence as a football club.