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Old February 26 2008, 07:06 AM   #121
darkwing_duck1
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Location: the Unreconstructed South
Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Could I submit a question for the board here? Where is all the "consumables" storarge on a starship? Where are the fresh water tanks, the raw materials storage for the food and industrial fabricators? What about Oxygen? And maneuvering thruster fuel? Hell, what about the deuterium and anti-deuterium storage? Has anyone ever done calcs for how much of these things a ship like the Enterprise would have to have on hand for a 5-year mission? You can stretch supplies SOME with recycling, I'm sure, but not THAT much.

Thoughts, anyone?
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Old February 26 2008, 08:06 AM   #122
Shaw
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

darkwing_duck1 wrote: View Post
Could I submit a question for the board here? Where is all the "consumables" storarge on a starship? Where are the fresh water tanks, the raw materials storage for the food and industrial fabricators? What about Oxygen? And maneuvering thruster fuel? Hell, what about the deuterium and anti-deuterium storage? Has anyone ever done calcs for how much of these things a ship like the Enterprise would have to have on hand for a 5-year mission? You can stretch supplies SOME with recycling, I'm sure, but not THAT much.

Thoughts, anyone?
In the 1930s the idea of a submarine that could basically go without refueling for years and could operate underwater for up to a year at a time without surfacing for fresh air was science fiction... they just didn't have any idea of what you could possibly do to clean the air or what you could run a submarine on besides diesel fuel.

We know now that the technology for all that stuff was about 30 years away, but for people of that period, it was unthinkable.

Sure, you don't see how any of this stuff could be done today, but we are talking about a Starship hundreds of years in the future. If people of the 1930s were unable to see the advances that were just 30 or 40 years into the future, why do you think that we would have any clue as to what a future starship would need?

Now, I'm not populating every part of the ship in my plans because we didn't actually get to see every part of the ship in the series. Nor am I planning on inventing technology based on what we know today because when looking at the works of people in the 1970s who tried that, it was obvious that they missed the mark.

So for me, much of the Enterprise's interior beyond what we saw on screen is a black box environment.


Given that, any calculations would be based on a 21st century understanding of technology. But ask yourself this question... How do you think people of the 1930s would have laid out the interior spaces of a submarine of the early 21st century so that it could stay submerged for up to a year at a time without taking on air or fuel? Do you think that they would have even been close to how subs of today are actually arranged?

Your questions above would most likely be answered in a similar way to our answering someone of the 1930s about nuclear power and air scrubbers. It is just beyond what we have in are realm of experience.
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Old February 26 2008, 08:42 AM   #123
darkwing_duck1
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Shaw wrote: View Post
Now, I'm not populating every part of the ship in my plans because we didn't actually get to see every part of the ship in the series. Nor am I planning on inventing technology based on what we know today because when looking at the works of people in the 1970s who tried that, it was obvious that they missed the mark.

So for me, much of the Enterprise's interior beyond what we saw on screen is a black box environment.

Given that, any calculations would be based on a 21st century understanding of technology. But ask yourself this question... How do you think people of the 1930s would have laid out the interior spaces of a submarine of the early 21st century so that it could stay submerged for up to a year at a time without taking on air or fuel? Do you think that they would have even been close to how subs of today are actually arranged?

Your questions above would most likely be answered in a similar way to our answering someone of the 1930s about nuclear power and air scrubbers. It is just beyond what we have in are realm of experience.

I see your point if not entirely agree with it. At least you're setting aside space for such things, unlike a lot of fan plans I've seen. I get tired of seeing the phaser banks put in a tiny little room marked "phasers", with no mention of the power capacitors that store their energy, or the coolant tanks that keep them cool, etc etc.
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Old February 26 2008, 09:00 PM   #124
Captain Robert April
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Note to self: Set aside room for a pantry....
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Old February 28 2008, 12:03 AM   #125
felixofgolden
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

>Now, I noticed in the TOS-R version of "Court Martial" that they showed a missing element that they assumed was the ion pod. It was one of the protruding lamps on the side of the secondary hull, adjacent to the hangar deck. The only thing that bothers me about that was that there are TWO of those "bumps" (one on each side... shown when they "flipped" the ship shots on a few occasions... even if it wasn't on the physical model!). Apart from the "duplication" minor snafu, though, it does work pretty well... if you assume that this is what I've recently started thinking of this as.

Did Court Martial specifically state that there was only 1 ion pod? Or was it just referred to as "the ion pod", making us figure that there was only one? Could be like a lot of things, being more than one, but when you talk about it, seems like there's just one. The transporter room for instance.. "meet me in the transporter room", yet there's most likely more than 1 in the ship itself.
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Old February 28 2008, 01:42 AM   #126
Shaw
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

The problem with that being the ion pod is that it is blinking on the original model all the time. In fact, when I did my model of the Constellation last year, that was one of the important elements to adding life to the ship in my animations...

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Old February 28 2008, 02:21 AM   #127
Praetor
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

I really don't like the 'blinkers' on either side as the ion pod at all. As everyone has said, they blink just like the running lights. I think the most logical place for the pod(s) is in the (1) sensor dish, extendible via some type of tube, (2) the area where the tractor beam is supposed to be, or (3) trailing from the open doors of the shuttlebay via some type of tether. I don't think that the ion pod necessarily has to be in the secondary hull as Finney could have made his way to engineering (wherever THAT is) via any means since clearly he anticipated Kirk ejecting the pod and had it all planned out.

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Old February 28 2008, 04:02 AM   #128
Wingsley
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Has anyone considered the possibility of the ion pod being embedded on the surface of either the "interconnecting dorsal"/"neck" between the saucer and the engineering hull, or one of the nacelle pylons?

Another possibility would be to open the outer doors of an aft photon torpedo tube and have the pod extend out from the edge of the tube, even if only a little ways. It would be like an unlaunched probe, that could be retracted and the "pilot" allowed to disembark from the pod once the survey was over.
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Old February 28 2008, 04:13 AM   #129
Cary L. Brown
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Wingsley wrote: View Post
Has anyone considered the possibility of the ion pod being embedded on the surface of either the "interconnecting dorsal"/"neck" between the saucer and the engineering hull, or one of the nacelle pylons?

Another possibility would be to open the outer doors of an aft photon torpedo tube and have the pod extend out from the edge of the tube, even if only a little ways. It would be like an unlaunched probe, that could be retracted and the "pilot" allowed to disembark from the pod once the survey was over.
That seems unlikely (the torpedo pod example) because there is no evidence that torpedo tubes are designed to allow ingress as well as egress. It would make more sense to have the pod be located in a dedicated facility... especially considering how small it would appear to be (ie, a one-man device).

The more I think about it, the more I like the idea that it's under the fantail in the little red rectangle... right alongside the workbees. :thumbsup:
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Old February 28 2008, 05:49 AM   #130
Wingsley
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

There are other possibilities (dare I blaspheme?) that probably nobody ever considered, but just popped into my mind:

1: that tubular projection in behind the bridge. Instead of it being a turboshaft (some have debated that in the past, if I'm not mistaken), maybe it could be a special one-man observation pod deposition tube, to be open in-flight only when a pod to be loaded there and exposed to the elements that the ship plans to fly through.

2: the rear-fantail assembly above the shuttlecraft hangar. Remember the observation deck set in "Conscience of the King"? Maybe just beyond sight there was a small Jefferies tube-like assembly leading to a pod there.

3: The aft area of Deck 2 or 3. Maybe there's a loadable pod tube located on the aft-end of one of the decks just below the Bridge.

4: My favorite idea by far is still a hidden assembly located somewhere in the periphery of the "neck" above the secondary hull.
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Old February 28 2008, 09:19 PM   #131
Captain Robert April
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Location: In selfless service to fandom, on the road to becoming a Star Trek trivia god...
Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

3: The aft area of Deck 2 or 3. Maybe there's a loadable pod tube located on the aft-end of one of the decks just below the Bridge.
Hold that thought, I'll try and find the appropriate pic...



(a few moments later)

Here we go...


Last edited by Captain Robert April; February 28 2008 at 09:34 PM.
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Old February 29 2008, 05:28 AM   #132
Shaw
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

This is some more extensive examples of fitting the actual set plans into the Enterprise using Jefferies approximate deck heights. The one major change in the layout of the decks is in the dorsal, where I went with the window spacing as a reference.


This isn't anywhere close to the final layout, just sizing comparisons of the sets to the ship.

Captain Robert April wrote:
Here we go...
I hadn't notice this before, but how are you scaling your internal elements? If the size of your bridge is a reference, then it looks like your ship would be about 1184 feet long. Is that right? That seems quite a bit larger than even the 1080 that some people are using.
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Old February 29 2008, 06:05 AM   #133
felixofgolden
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

Just so you know, the plan of the phaser control room is wrong when compared to the episode. The entrance is on the other side etc.
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Old February 29 2008, 06:23 AM   #134
Shaw
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Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

felixofgolden wrote: View Post
Just so you know, the plan of the phaser control room is wrong when compared to the episode. The entrance is on the other side etc.
Actually... the only difference between these plans and the set as shot was the orientation of the console in the center of the room. Otherwise they followed the set construction plans when redressing main engineering for that episode.

I have already broken up each of the sets and have their individual plans set aside in a folder with screen captures of how the sets actually looked for when I take the time to draw them out myself.

But until that time, I don't have a problem with using Jefferies' drawings as is.
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Old February 29 2008, 08:40 AM   #135
Captain Robert April
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Location: In selfless service to fandom, on the road to becoming a Star Trek trivia god...
Re: Another fan attempt at TOS deck plans

I've just been eyeballing it to this point.

I figured things were off by a bit, but not that much.

Also keep in mind that the pic is kind of midway in the process. It was just the clearest one I had showing the Ion pod bay.
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