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Old January 18 2008, 02:17 AM   #31
Soar_Dude
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

You know I have sat here looking at the image for awhile I have come to a realization the nacelles are not attached to anything the one on the right is closer in then the left. The crane that has a light source on the upper saucer must 600 or 700 feet long as the base is clearly behind the right nacelle. looking at in this light I feel that nacelles are smaller in diameter. this is just my nickel.

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Old January 18 2008, 02:23 AM   #32
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

Psion brings up a good point. If this movie takes place between the Cage and WNMHGB, then this Enterprise is a travesty. What we should be seeing is a minor refit from the Cage to the WNMHGB version.
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Old January 18 2008, 02:28 AM   #33
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

Well all i can say is looks good for it being most likly being Gabes Enterprise so till i see the movie this is all im saying
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Old January 18 2008, 02:54 AM   #34
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

It looks like a cross between the original and the refit design to me. Doesn't really evoke Gabe's ship, but as someone said upthread, everyone is seeing what they want to see in this image.
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Old January 18 2008, 03:01 AM   #35
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

It's not so much like the Kroenerprise...

http://www.gabekoerner.com/ent/entfront_0001.jpg
http://www.gabekoerner.com/ent/ent_05_04_001.jpg
http://www.gabekoerner.com/ent/entview_persp3.jpg
http://www.gabekoerner.com/ent/enterprise_0000.jpg
http://www.gabekoerner.com/ent/ent_123106_0001.jpg
http://www.gabekoerner.com/ent/ent_010706_0007.jpg

... which is a good thing in my book. It's more TMP than his.
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Old January 18 2008, 03:12 AM   #36
Admiral Buzzkill
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

Psion said:...I deduce that the movie takes place very roughly a decade after the Talosian incident..
The movie takes place all over the place - Kirk's infancy, Spock's childhood, Spock serving under Pike...as well, of course, as Spock in the 24th century.
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Old January 18 2008, 04:13 AM   #37
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

Now that I look at it more closely...the saucer is more like a TOS/TMP crossover, but the nacelles are very similar to Gabe's.
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Old January 18 2008, 04:34 AM   #38
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

Wasn't John Eaves working on her? So why have him if Gabe made it? Again I love TOS versions and would like to have seem a versions like that on the big screen. Again its still hard to tell what the ship looks like from that shot.
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Old January 18 2008, 05:06 AM   #39
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

^^^Love your avatar!

To the matter at hand: after all the variations and re-interpretations I've seen, the only design that would have floored me would have been the original. This ship is pretty and all but she's just another tweak of the timeless classic. She's what I really wanted to see. She looked great in "Trials and Trbble-ations" and "In a Mirror Darkly" and in TOS-R. Let's not mince words here: she looked great in a lot of the original effects sequences from the sixties. I only wish I could have seen her on the big screen.
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Old January 18 2008, 09:40 AM   #40
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

After studying this image a little more it looks like there is the same kind of cowling around the bussard collector's that Gabriel Koerner's enterprise has. Maybe it's just a trick of perspective but that's what it seems like to me.

I'd also like to give my two cents with regards to Vance's comment that the movie will flop based on this image alone because it doesn't look exactly like the original.

I grew up watching TOS reruns in the 70s and 80s and one of the first things about the show that grabbed me was the Enterprise herself. I fell in love with her. She was like an un-credited member of the cast. I also remember how excited I was at seeing Trials and Tribbleations because we finally got to see her in much better film quality. Suffice it to say that I love the Enterprise and all of the characters and actors who made up TOS.

No one can ever replace TOS but I think everyone can agree that Star Trek didn't get the run it deserved back when it originally aired. And as much as I like the movies I have always wanted to see more adventures of Kirk and the gang back in their heyday so I am looking forward to seeing what they can do with this movie. Now obviously to do this everyone will need to be recast, which of course they have done. Does Quinto look exactly like Nimoy? No. Does Pine look exactly like Shatner? No. Does this mean I won't be able to tell who they are when I see them onscreen? Of course not! So if we are recasting all of the actors I think it only makes sense to recast the Enterprise as well. Will she look exactly like the original? No. Will I recognize her as the Enterprise when I see her onscreen? I think the answer to that one is pretty obvious. If you are willing to accept the recasting of all the original characters I see no reason why you can't accept the recasting of the Enterprise too. Just because she looks different doesn't automatically make it bad.

As others have said, the mainstream movie going public doesn't pick up on all the minute details that us hard core trek fans do. They'll see two nacelles sticking out of a cylinder and a saucer attached to that cylinder by a neck and say "Oh, that's the Enterprise." It's the same with famous pieces of architecture like the Eiffel Tower or the Pyramids, all you need to do is draw a few lines and you can instantly recognize what it is. It doesn't matter what the details are.

I have a few more arguments but I think I'll save those for any rebuttals I may have.
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Old January 18 2008, 11:00 AM   #41
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

I'm not convinced the nacelles are that big, frankly - it looks to me that the focal length of the 'camera' is compressing the perspective of the shot, because the bridge area also looks pretty large in comparison to the leading edge of the saucer.

I'm also not convinced this isn't in space, despite what the synopsis of the trailer may say about it being built 'on' Earth. I don't see any workmen, suited or otherwise, to suggest the environment, but what some interpret as steam 'rising' from the hull could just as easily be gas and smoke spreading outward from a work site into space. The lighting makes it appear, to me, more likely that this is a space shot.

The main thing I don't care for is the high contrast of the aztecing; regardless of whether or not, in the future, we might have advanced construction techniques that would make it possible to build such a structure as a unit, I just find it hard to believe that the hull, presumably made of similar adjacent materials, would have such vast variations of coloring from panel to panel. Maybe some specular variations, sure, but not the actual color. Quality control in the future must get pretty bad! (of course, when you have no currency, what's the incentive to do a good job? )
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Old January 18 2008, 11:05 AM   #42
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

The other thing to consider is this movie is still nearly a year away from release. Special effects are usually done as part of post-production. I'm amazed they're rendering passes on her while principal photography is still taking place. I wonder if this is intended to gauge audience reactions so they can make last minute changes before they have to commit CPU cycles.

I agree with TheSeeker that the strongest whiff of Gabe comes from the engines. The primary hull is different, however, as SonicRanger's links illustrate. Gabe's notion of the engines having big, whirling machinery within seems to be reflected in this design.

I don't mind an update on the ship very much. But I'm hoping the more radical aspects of Gabe's vision ... such as the secondary hull, the navigational deflector, the way the pylons connect, and the dorsal interconnect are toned way down. If, indeed, this is his ship.

And I really, really hope this ship wasn't built on Earth. That just doesn't make much engineering sense to me. A design like the Enterprise begs to be birthed in orbit.
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Old January 18 2008, 11:14 AM   #43
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

Ptrope said:
I'm also not convinced this isn't in space, despite what the synopsis of the trailer may say about it being built 'on' Earth. I don't see any workmen, suited or otherwise, to suggest the environment, but what some interpret as steam 'rising' from the hull could just as easily be gas and smoke spreading outward from a work site into space. The lighting makes it appear, to me, more likely that this is a space shot.

Look at the spotlights on the scaffolding at the bow of the ship. They've got a fair amount of atmospheric haze surrounding them. This could be a pressurized spacedock, though, with a very humid atmosphere creating conditions not unlike those found in San Francisco at 4:00am in the morning. On the other hand, a lot of spacedock publicity photos from Trek III added haze to the lights that wasn't actually in the movie, so maybe the atmospherics here aren't final, either.

I also note that there are sections of the hull with very little color variation, so I think the aztec variations are specular. There's so much room for disagreement, though! I can't wait for this film! Hell, I can't wait to go see Cloverfield tonight just so I can have a Trekgasm!

Oh look! Time to take my meds ...
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Old January 18 2008, 11:20 AM   #44
Savage Dragon
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

Ptrope said:

I'm also not convinced this isn't in space, despite what the synopsis of the trailer may say about it being built 'on' Earth. I don't see any workmen, suited or otherwise, to suggest the environment, but what some interpret as steam 'rising' from the hull could just as easily be gas and smoke spreading outward from a work site into space. The lighting makes it appear, to me, more likely that this is a space shot.
It's difficult to say at this resolution but I thought the area I have highlighted in the image below looks like it has a work platform with a couple of lights and a guy in a space suit:



Does anyone else see or think that?
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Old January 18 2008, 11:47 AM   #45
Ptrope
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Re: The OFFICIAL new Enterprise - Let the critiques begin!

Psion said:
Oh look! Time to take my meds ...
LOL!

Not to get too techie, since this is the art forum, but a ship as massive as something like Enterprise is going to have microgravity, maybe even enough to keep a thin atmosphere around it - temporarily, of course - of the gases from any work being done. Kind of the way those Cheerios follow your spoon in a bowl of milk! And one thing I thought would be possible in my Endeavour fanfic was that the ship's gravity wouldn't necessarily stop at the hull, but might continue outward somewhat, tapering off but still creating gravity at the surface of the hull (at least on top, right? ). So maybe one of the last things to fail on a starship - the gravity - is also one of the first to go in; it sure would make working inside the ship a lot easier in many cases; maybe not when there is a lot of major structural work to be done, but at least once it's reached the stage we see in this pic (I guess they prepainted the name on the individual panels before putting them on, since there's a hole right in the end of Enterprise).
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