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Old September 2 2014, 04:06 AM   #16
Warped9
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Re: Expressing criticism directly...

^^ Do you see me going into the ENT or VOY or DS9 or JJtrek forums to cause problems? No, you don't.

Do you see me going out of my way to derail threads in the General or any forum to cause trouble? No, doesn't happen.

The only time I remark on something I don't like is when it's raised in a discussion in which I'm already participating.

Did I say Abrams or anyone was likely surrounded by "yes men?" No, I didn't.

I pondered whether he (or really anyone in a similar position) had ever had anyone voice their criticism directly to them. And I did say "in a civil manner." That doesn't mean, "Yeah, I saw your film and I thought it stunk." but rather, "Yes, I saw your film and it didn't work for me."
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Old September 2 2014, 06:04 AM   #17
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Re: Expressing criticism directly...

I listened to the Directors Commentary of Revenge of the Sith once.

(Wow. I really had to think to remember what that movie was called and I'm still a little unsure if I am right...)

It was George and two sycophantic Yesmen who dreamed about blowing him.



JJ has yeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeears to go before it gets that bad.
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Old September 2 2014, 12:15 PM   #18
King Daniel Into Darkness
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Re: Expressing criticism directly...

Warped9 wrote: View Post
It has idly occurred to me whether anyone has ever told JJ Abrams that they didn't agree with or don't like what was done in ST09 and STID.

Many of us can rant and rave and openly criticize online what we don't like in film snd television. But how many of us would actually voice our honest opinion (albeit in a civil manner) to someone responsible for what we didn't like?

I do recall meeting Leni Parker at a Toronto Trek convention several years ago. We got to talking about Earth Final Conflict and I did tell her I was disappointed with what had happened to the show during its second season. Mind you she was an actress only contracted to play the part written for her and so she could hardly be criticized for creative decisions made by those who employed her. And it has to be said that she replied she had heard similar criticism from other fans and she claimed to generally agree with them.

Back in the mid to late '90s at another convention I once had occasion to give feedback (during a question period) to someone who worked closely with Rick Berman (regrettably I don't recall his name). I did express some criticism regarding then contemporary Trek. Mind you the criticism was of a general nature rather than specific.

But again this criticism was not voiced directly to someone with some responsibility in creative decisions. An actor or a right-hand-man only does what they're told and doesn't oversee the big decisions regarding a film or television series.

I'm reasonably sure that producers, directors and writers are aware of criticism regarding their work, but I wonder how often they might experience criticism voiced to them directly.
Bob Orci, who is helming ST3, interacts directly with fans on Trekmovie.com. I'm sure by now he has heard every criticism of ST'09 and ID.
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Old September 2 2014, 12:45 PM   #19
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Re: Expressing criticism directly...

I used to hang out on usenet during the B5 days when JMS was answering questions constantly. I remember trying to nail him with the "B5 is Lord of the Rings with the serial numbers filed off" beef and he refused to admit it. At the time people were such fanbois that they generally believed him, but I think in retrospect most consider B5, at least the shadows storyline and the Valen and Rangers and technomages stuff, to be very clearly LOTR-esque. But JMS actually claimed his Rangers were based on Walker: Texas Ranger instead of the Rangers from LOTR. I didn't buy it.
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Old September 2 2014, 03:43 PM   #20
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Re: Expressing criticism directly...

mos6507 wrote: View Post
I used to hang out on usenet during the B5 days when JMS was answering questions constantly. I remember trying to nail him with the "B5 is Lord of the Rings with the serial numbers filed off" beef and he refused to admit it. At the time people were such fanbois that they generally believed him, but I think in retrospect most consider B5, at least the shadows storyline and the Valen and Rangers and technomages stuff, to be very clearly LOTR-esque. But JMS actually claimed his Rangers were based on Walker: Texas Ranger instead of the Rangers from LOTR. I didn't buy it.
Hmmmm....JMS himself, has, many, many times made comparisons to LotR.
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Old September 2 2014, 04:48 PM   #21
Kai "the spy"
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Re: Expressing criticism directly...

And to about a dozen other sources of inspiration.
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Old September 2 2014, 06:49 PM   #22
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Re: Expressing criticism directly...

JMS may have had multiple influences for his work on B5, but LOTR is very clearly and very obviously the main influence.
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Old September 2 2014, 07:05 PM   #23
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Re: Expressing criticism directly...

I can imagine that JJ has heard constructive criticism from his colleagues in "the industry". What that criticism entailed is unknown, and there are no guarantees that his colleagues agree with some poster's complaints about the Star Trek movies. Indeed for all we know Lucas, Spielberg, and Michael Bay had a big lunch with JJ and talked him into using lens flares.
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Old September 2 2014, 07:09 PM   #24
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Re: Expressing criticism directly...

At a book signing of Nicholas Meyer's memoir, during a Q&A, I asked him if he was annoyed at severe the plot changes made from his The Seven Per-Cent Solution novel to the movie adaptation (on which he also had sole screenwriting credit). To my mind, the movie plot was so obviously inferior that it could only have resulted from producers making him dumb his own book down.

To my surprise, however, he said he'd made the changes voluntarily, due to his being dissatisfied with the book. And here I thought I was charging to his rescue!
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Old September 2 2014, 07:14 PM   #25
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Re: Expressing criticism directly...

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
I was on the DC Comics message boards shortly after that point in Green Lantern comics, that bit were every one is coming back from the dead, hardly specific Guy, Day of Judgement, where Hal Jordan runs out of steam during the last fight with the big bad (Asmodel?) and in his most desperate hour of need, the souls (given physical forms by Hal's ring) of all the Green Lanterns he'd murdered in Emerald Twilight leap out of his ring and say "Don't worry Hal, we know you just had a bad day and we forgive you for the small genocide that obliterated the corps and left our grief stricken families motherless and fatherless, so we're going to shoulder your burden and win out this one for you, because you're greatest, we love you, even if you bludgeoned us to death or near death and then took our rings so that we would explode to death well before we'd freeze to death in the vacuum of space. You're super awesome and you never have to feel guilty about being murderous psycho fuck every again because we all, all of us individually and collectively, forgive you entirely."



A hundred dead Green Lanterns (3600?) emerged from his ring with individual combat styles and personalties, each with the wallop of Green Lantern with hir own power ring instead of each of them having a 100th the resources of one ring since they were all drawing from Hal's magic ring simultaneously?

Fuck.

So I write in the DC Message Boards that Hal must have had a schizophrenic wish fulfilment break, as his mind has obviously shattered into a hundred people that is reflected from his FRACTURED/BROKEN psyche's need to be forgiven from the all-consuming guilt that is damning him, but if they were all him, then Hal forgave himself because he's a prick.

(Or words to that effect.)

Hours later Geoff Johns, the author of the book, tells me that I am wrong. Those were dead souls of the murdered Green Lantern Corps and that they did forgive Jordan because yes he had just had one bad day.

(I just realized that "one bad day" is the Jokers excuse too, from Killing Joke.)

I should take from this that I am wrong and Geoff is right, but I don't.

Johns' CRUSADE in the following years to unwrong every blemish in Hal Jordan's character has been ####ing embarrassing.

Jordan didn't kill anyone in Emerald Twilight. He left everyone in forcefield bubbles. Everyone lived.

The 13 year old child he was fucking, was not thirteen at all because her planet spun on it's axis half as fast as Earth, so she had always been 26.

There was a magic ghost called Parallax inside the Central power Battery that possessed Hal Jordan and made his do all the awful things Jordan did when he was the universe destroying bad guy Parallax.

Drunk driving charges and prison sentence... GONE!



Hal Jordan apologists, really get my goat.
Not to mention that Batman is considered being a jerk becuase he still has problems with the crap Hal did.
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Old September 2 2014, 10:39 PM   #26
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Re: Expressing criticism directly...

When was that?

My mind draws back to Green Lantern 100 - 106 "Emerald Knights" where young Hal travels forward in time to play with Poochie. Batman took Kyle to one side and told him to watch Jordan carefully because he is a ####ing liability.

That was (literally?) 4 universes ago.
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Old September 2 2014, 11:00 PM   #27
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Re: Expressing criticism directly...

Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
The 13 year old child he was fucking, was not thirteen at all because her planet spun on it's axis half as fast as Earth, so she had always been 26.
Wait, he did what now? A superhero was doing that to a child? And DC let it go to print?
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Old September 2 2014, 11:20 PM   #28
Guy Gardener
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Re: Expressing criticism directly...

A 13 year old (probably younger when she first showed up.) Green Lantern named Arisa immediately and quickly fell in love with Hal Jordan and she spent years (our time) throwing herself at Hal Jordan who was thirtysomething and pushing 40 if you believe those white temples he had in the 90s.

Eventually Arisa used her ring to force her body to "grow up".

Immediately upon seeing this little girl now in the body of a 22 year old, but still with the mind of a 13 year old, although the writer will probably argue that the ring had given her the maturity of a 22 year old, which is another kettle of fish entirely, Hal locks lips with her and they moved in together to play house.

Am I being judgy?
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Old September 2 2014, 11:33 PM   #29
Stevil2001
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Re: Expressing criticism directly...

OmahaStar wrote: View Post
Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
The 13 year old child he was fucking, was not thirteen at all because her planet spun on it's axis half as fast as Earth, so she had always been 26.
Wait, he did what now? A superhero was doing that to a child? And DC let it go to print?
Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
A 13 year old (probably younger when she first showed up.) Green Lantern named Arisa immediately and quickly fell in love with Hal Jordan and she spent years (our time) throwing herself at Hal Jordan who was thirtysomething and pushing 40 if you believe those white temples he had in the 90s.

Eventually Arisa used her ring to force her body to "grow up".

Immediately upon seeing this little girl now in the body of a 22 year old, but still with the mind of a 13 year old, although the writer will probably argue that the ring had given her the maturity of a 22 year old, which is another kettle of fish entirely, Hal locks lips with her and they moved in together to play house.

Am I being judgy?
A lot of details here: http://goodcomics.comicbookresources...an-and-arisia/
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Old September 2 2014, 11:45 PM   #30
Joel_Kirk
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Re: Expressing criticism directly...

Stevil2001 wrote: View Post
OmahaStar wrote: View Post
Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
The 13 year old child he was fucking, was not thirteen at all because her planet spun on it's axis half as fast as Earth, so she had always been 26.
Wait, he did what now? A superhero was doing that to a child? And DC let it go to print?
Guy Gardener wrote: View Post
A 13 year old (probably younger when she first showed up.) Green Lantern named Arisa immediately and quickly fell in love with Hal Jordan and she spent years (our time) throwing herself at Hal Jordan who was thirtysomething and pushing 40 if you believe those white temples he had in the 90s.

Eventually Arisa used her ring to force her body to "grow up".

Immediately upon seeing this little girl now in the body of a 22 year old, but still with the mind of a 13 year old, although the writer will probably argue that the ring had given her the maturity of a 22 year old, which is another kettle of fish entirely, Hal locks lips with her and they moved in together to play house.

Am I being judgy?
A lot of details here: http://goodcomics.comicbookresources...an-and-arisia/
It looks like they drew inspiration from Robert Heinlein novels.....if one gets my meaning.
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