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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Star Trek TV Series > Star Trek - Original Series

Star Trek - Original Series The one that started it all...

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Old August 26 2014, 08:57 AM   #76
Kobayshi Maru
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Re: The Animated Series

Destructor wrote: View Post
Christopher wrote: View Post
Wow, I can't even remember how long I've been with the TrekBBS. Over 12 years, certainly.

Oh, there it is -- my profile says I joined on March 15, 2001.
Oh, you should have seen this place in '99, man. I remember when there wasn't even a Trek Lit forum. CRAY.
Those were the days... I guess.
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Old August 26 2014, 10:28 PM   #77
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Re: The Animated Series

plynch wrote: View Post
Just like '70s Saturday morning "animation." 1970s TV animation sucks as animation. It is barely "animated." More like coloring book pages whose lips move.
Exaggeration is not making a point. Original Yogi Bear cartoons were limited (at least compared to their theatrical cousins of the 40s/50s), but it was still animation viewers accepted.

Even as the catalogs of Terrytoons, MGM, Famous, WB, etc. were packaged for TV distribution--oft times couched between original TV content, history does not record a mass outcry of "eww! that new stuff is inferior animation!"

So I and others of my ilk would at least like to see some of the stories animated better. You asked "What would be the point?" I think. Well, what's the point to anything? Because I like animation and think it would be kind of cool to see it done better.
Are also fine with "filmmakers" going back and butchering original work (so-called "special editions"). for example, would you argue for Forbidden Planet or the original King Kong's EFX to be replaced with CG work? Should the Fleischer Superman be "updated" because someone who thinks the animation of Clone Wars or Green Lantern is "sooo cewl?" and the standard that all others must follow? Should any WW2 films which used models for air battles be Lucas-ized because a few modern day audiences cannot fathom the artistry in anything beyond that which was targeted at their generation?


Ain't gonna happen.
...not because of budget or other studio concerns, but due to an utter lack of necessity.
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Old August 27 2014, 12:18 AM   #78
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Re: The Animated Series

Nobody said it was necessary. None of this necessary. Some fairly well-done space opera I love was not necessary. Nor an animated version with horrible animation. Christopher asked "What would be the point?"

I answered.

No, I would not tinker with the examples you mentioned. I have argued against the FX in the TOS blurays, actually. But, my coloring book statement is no exaggeration. I went and watched one again after posting. Really, "animation" is a stretch. They really are basically coloring book pictures with the lips moving.

So, I (who love those beautiful Fleischer Supes btw) would like to see some killer animation mated with those stories, since they have the original actors' voices. It would be cool, in my opinion. That's all. I don't see why people get so worked up about other people's desires or opinions here.
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Old August 27 2014, 12:45 AM   #79
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Re: The Animated Series

You know, there's a ton of anime that's just as limited in its animation as TAS was. I see plenty of TV anime that features long shots where nothing moves except a character's lips, or the camera panning slowly across a static scene. Plenty of anime shows are built around the reuse of stock sequences, such as henshin/transformation scenes or standardized attacks. This is true even of some of the classier anime like Ghost in the Shell: Stand Alone Complex, where some of the action animation is really rich and dynamic but there are plenty of long dialogue scenes with virtually no animation at all. It puzzles me that anime, even from the '90s and '00s and beyond, gets a pass from fandom for its limited animation, but Filmation's '70s work gets trashed for doing the exact same things.
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Old August 27 2014, 02:39 AM   #80
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Re: The Animated Series

plynch wrote: View Post
Nobody said it was necessary. None of this necessary. Some fairly well-done space opera I love was not necessary. Nor an animated version with horrible animation. Christopher asked "What would be the point?"

I answered.

No, I would not tinker with the examples you mentioned. I have argued against the FX in the TOS blurays, actually. But, my coloring book statement is no exaggeration. I went and watched one again after posting. Really, "animation" is a stretch. They really are basically coloring book pictures with the lips moving.

So, I (who love those beautiful Fleischer Supes btw) would like to see some killer animation mated with those stories, since they have the original actors' voices. It would be cool, in my opinion. That's all. I don't see why people get so worked up about other people's desires or opinions here.
I hear you.
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Old August 27 2014, 02:54 AM   #81
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Re: The Animated Series

Marsden wrote: View Post
plynch wrote: View Post
Nobody said it was necessary. None of this necessary. Some fairly well-done space opera I love was not necessary. Nor an animated version with horrible animation. Christopher asked "What would be the point?"

I answered.

No, I would not tinker with the examples you mentioned. I have argued against the FX in the TOS blurays, actually. But, my coloring book statement is no exaggeration. I went and watched one again after posting. Really, "animation" is a stretch. They really are basically coloring book pictures with the lips moving.

So, I (who love those beautiful Fleischer Supes btw) would like to see some killer animation mated with those stories, since they have the original actors' voices. It would be cool, in my opinion. That's all. I don't see why people get so worked up about other people's desires or opinions here.
I hear you.
Thank you.

And, Christopher, anime gets no pass from me, nor from others who deride its crappy animation. I can't watch it. Its lack of fluidity reminds me of the b/w Looney Tunes that were sent to Korea to be colorized and they took out every other frame to lighten their load.
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Old August 27 2014, 03:04 AM   #82
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Re: The Animated Series

I think I know what the problem is.

Star Trek TOS was such an energetic show. A young Bill Shatner is the star, for chrissakes. The guy didn't stop moving!

And then there were explosions, chases, phaser shoot outs, fistfights, melodrama, screaming, torture, warp speed chases, crewmen being tossed around the Enterprise.

And then comes TAS with its relaxed animation style.

It's kind of a rough transition.

But then maybe it's more apparent to me because I'm currently doing a complete TOS marathon, jumping right into TAS after Turnabout Intruder before getting into the motion pictures.
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Old August 27 2014, 05:14 AM   #83
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Re: The Animated Series

I don't want the Animation changed.

Yeh its got clunky bits but I'm more in it for the stories.

New animation (if better) would increase my appreciation for TAS by 5.65%. Not worth it for me.
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Old August 27 2014, 08:05 AM   #84
Kobayshi Maru
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Re: The Animated Series

I appreciated the imagination in TAS.
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Old August 27 2014, 12:24 PM   #85
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Re: The Animated Series

EnriqueH wrote: View Post
I think I know what the problem is.

Star Trek TOS was such an energetic show. A young Bill Shatner is the star, for chrissakes. The guy didn't stop moving!

And then there were explosions, chases, phaser shoot outs, fistfights, melodrama, screaming, torture, warp speed chases, crewmen being tossed around the Enterprise.

And then comes TAS with its relaxed animation style.

It's kind of a rough transition.

But then maybe it's more apparent to me because I'm currently doing a complete TOS marathon, jumping right into TAS after Turnabout Intruder before getting into the motion pictures.
The dialog is delivered/recorded in a very "relaxed" manner too, each actor reading to a mic rather than speaking to each other on a set or location.
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Old August 27 2014, 12:49 PM   #86
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Re: The Animated Series

Yeah.

And I also believe that the actors recorded their dialogue separately, negating the chemistry of the show a bit.

I remember the Shatner and Nimoy DVD commentaries for Treks III and V, and they were a little dry compared to the magic of the Trek IV commentary, which they recorded together.
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Old August 27 2014, 01:01 PM   #87
Last Redshirt
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Re: The Animated Series

TAS was very imaginative and I like to think a lot of the scope of it (huge non-humanoid alien monsters, massive landscapes, etc) was stuff that Roddenberry had ideas for, but couldn't ever implement into TOS.

But it was very dry, very relaxed, especially in comparison to TOS. Shatner was always walking around the bridge, there was always crewmembers behind up, doing average joe shit. It didn't help that some of the animation just didn't work.
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Old August 27 2014, 01:19 PM   #88
EnriqueH
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Re: The Animated Series

Last Redshirt wrote: View Post
TAS was very imaginative and I like to think a lot of the scope of it (huge non-humanoid alien monsters, massive landscapes, etc) was stuff that Roddenberry had ideas for, but couldn't ever implement into TOS.
Oh yeah. I like the stories! It is a good show, but despite that, I can't help but feel that the animation is not consistent with the show's energy.

But it was very dry, very relaxed, especially in comparison to TOS. Shatner was always walking around the bridge, there was always crewmembers behind up, doing average joe shit.
Yeah, those overhead shots of the Enterprise crew frozen in their seats just don't cut it.
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Old August 27 2014, 01:21 PM   #89
EnriqueH
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Re: The Animated Series

CommishSleer wrote: View Post
New animation (if better) would increase my appreciation for TAS by 5.65%. Not worth it for me.
Why, would you be doing the work?

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Old August 27 2014, 02:10 PM   #90
Christopher
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Re: The Animated Series

EnriqueH wrote: View Post
And I also believe that the actors recorded their dialogue separately, negating the chemistry of the show a bit.
That's actually pretty standard for animation, but good voice directors are able to compensate for it by bringing out good performances in their cast. And experienced voice actors are often better at emoting/performing through their voices alone. The problem with TAS is that its production was rather rushed, so the actors often had to record their lines from whatever studio was convenient and didn't get consistent direction, and also that Shatner, Nimoy, and Kelley weren't used to voice acting. It's noticeable that the actors with the most prior experience performing with their voices -- Doohan (who'd done a bunch of radio acting), Takei (who'd dubbed Japanese movies into English), Nichols (an experienced singer), and Barrett (who'd done voiceovers for TOS) -- gave more, well, animated performances than the lackadaisical deliveries of the big three.
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