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Future of Trek Discussion of future Trek projects.

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Old August 26 2014, 07:41 AM   #46
phredy
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Re: Dull Humans?

I think the idea of humans in Star Trek being holier-than-thou is slightly exaggerated. The Starfleet officer watching Vina dance in "The Cage" seemed lecherous enough, Kodos panicked at the first sign of crop failure and started phasering people, the Federation is tolerant of exotic forms of death for comparatively minor crimes on Deneb V, etc.

Humans in the future best explained by Kirk in "Star Trek III". With his self-sacrificing steed and trusty companions, Kirk travels to the Underworld, kicks the Devil in the face, steals his giant bird, and spirits his dead friend back to the living world for rebirth. Kirk is still a plain human being with all the faults, but unlike Gilgamesh or Orpheus, future humanity has learned it's lesson and keeps it's eye on the ball.
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Old August 26 2014, 08:16 AM   #47
Timewalker
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Re: Dull Humans?

You gave 23rd century examples. It's the 24th century when this "we have evolved beyond such pettiness" gets spouted in such a blatantly dishonest and hypocritical way.

Picard's myopic little starship world may be a utopia, but the entire Federation isn't. As he found out, even some Starfleet officers are nothing but crooks.

Would Picard "march into hell" to save any of his officers? He sort of did for Data, but the rest? None that I can remember.
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Old August 26 2014, 08:57 AM   #48
T'Girl
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Re: Dull Humans?

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
I have been to Detroit, and I can tell you it's not as bad as the media keeps saying it is.
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Old August 26 2014, 03:02 PM   #49
Jedi_Master
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Re: Dull Humans?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
I have been to Detroit, and I can tell you it's not as bad as the media keeps saying it is.
Incomprehensible graph is incomprehensible.
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Old August 26 2014, 04:20 PM   #50
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Re: Dull Humans?

T'Girl is of course making the point that Detroit's violent crime rates are well above the American national median rates, which is fair enough. But of course hardly makes it comparable to Turkana IV nor redeems her bizarre, obnoxious and offensive initial rhetorical attempt to bring in "Planet Detroit" as a completely non sequitur slam against progressive-something-or-other, as if progressivism is somehow the proven cause of urban decay or social collapse in Detroit or anywhere else.
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Old August 26 2014, 06:23 PM   #51
T'Girl
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Re: Dull Humans?

BigJake wrote: View Post
But of course hardly makes it comparable to Turkana IV ...
The graph is a direct response to the statement that "it's not as bad as the media keeps saying it is."

Detroit is very much as bad as the media keeps saying it is, it's a shining example of how a city government should not run a major city over the course of decades.

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Old August 26 2014, 06:26 PM   #52
Jedi_Master
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Re: Dull Humans?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
BigJake wrote: View Post
But of course hardly makes it comparable to Turkana IV ...
The graph is a direct response to the statement that "it's not as bad as the media keeps saying it is."

Detroit is very much as bad as the media keeps saying it is, it's a shining example of how a city government should not run a major city over the course of decades.

But even if someone were to accept that premise, there has been no factual information provided to classify Turkana IV as "Planet Detroit - ruined by progressive policies run amuck".

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Old August 26 2014, 06:30 PM   #53
The Stig
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Re: Dull Humans?

Jedi_Master wrote: View Post
T'Girl wrote: View Post
BigJake wrote: View Post
But of course hardly makes it comparable to Turkana IV ...
The graph is a direct response to the statement that "it's not as bad as the media keeps saying it is."

Detroit is very much as bad as the media keeps saying it is, it's a shining example of how a city government should not run a major city over the course of decades.

But even if someone were to accept that premise, there has been no factual information provided to classify Turkana IV as "Planet Detroit - ruined by progressive policies run amuck".

Additionally, this is not the forum where I can properly eviscerate such ridiculous drivel. Bring your clap-trap into TNZ, T'Girl, so it can be met with appropriate force.
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Old August 26 2014, 06:45 PM   #54
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Re: Dull Humans?

Why do you think she doesn't post in there?

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Old August 26 2014, 07:00 PM   #55
BigJake
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Re: Dull Humans?

T'Girl wrote: View Post
it's a shining example of how a city government should not run a major city over the course of decades.
From what you've said thus far, I'm not very convinced that you could come up with a convincing diagnosis of what Detroit's genuine problems or the sources of those problems are, or what its proper public profile should be and how media representation compares to that.

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Old August 26 2014, 08:22 PM   #56
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Re: Dull Humans?

BigJake wrote: View Post
T'Girl is of course making the point that Detroit's violent crime rates are well above the American national median rates, which is fair enough. But of course hardly makes it comparable to Turkana IV nor redeems her bizarre, obnoxious and offensive initial rhetorical attempt to bring in "Planet Detroit" as a completely non sequitur slam against progressive-something-or-other, as if progressivism is somehow the proven cause of urban decay or social collapse in Detroit or anywhere else.
+1

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Old August 26 2014, 10:25 PM   #57
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Re: Dull Humans?

I'm picking up on a theme here.

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Old August 26 2014, 11:24 PM   #58
dub
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Re: Dull Humans?

King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
I never liked the "evolved" humans of TNG. Any future Trek project is far better off abandoning the concept, which only serves to make the characters unlikeable. TOS, DS9, the classic and new movies got humanity right.
Perhaps that's why FC is my favorite of the TNG films. Picard is a more relatable, human, flawed man in that picture.
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Old August 27 2014, 12:19 AM   #59
Mr. Laser Beam
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Re: Dull Humans?

Jedi_Master wrote: View Post
T'Girl wrote: View Post
BigJake wrote: View Post
But of course hardly makes it comparable to Turkana IV ...
The graph is a direct response to the statement that "it's not as bad as the media keeps saying it is."

Detroit is very much as bad as the media keeps saying it is, it's a shining example of how a city government should not run a major city over the course of decades.

But even if someone were to accept that premise, there has been no factual information provided to classify Turkana IV as "Planet Detroit - ruined by progressive policies run amuck".

My point is...like I said, I have been to Detroit. I have seen it up close. I'm not denying that there are serious problems there, but it is hardly the free-for-all that is the image propounded by the media. There is still hope in Detroit. It's not total chaos or anarchy. And it's not anywhere near what Tasha's colony was like.

Detroit is not a failed city by any means. It can be fixed.
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Old August 27 2014, 06:35 AM   #60
wulfio
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Re: Dull Humans?

Melakon wrote: View Post
The problem with Roddenberry's evolved humans of the 24th century, who are so enlightened they can't even argue over the last sandwich on a tray, is they're insufferable sanctimonious assholes.
I like them.
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