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Old August 23 2014, 08:49 PM   #16
publiusr
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Re: A History of the Klingon People

Lovely work. I remember the name Kazh for some reason.
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Old August 26 2014, 03:19 AM   #17
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Re: A History of the Klingon People

One bit of "Fanon" I've always leaned towards re: The Kinglons is that the story of Klingons killing their gods makes perfect sense as a mythologized version of overthrowing a powerful interstellar empire that had colonized them. I'm not entirely sure if I based this on something I read years ago or if it just arose in me piecing together what little hints we got from the various shows.

These "gods" may have performed some level of genetic engineering or eugenics on the original Klingon population, creating a more intelligent caste that was able to learn and use their superior technology to better serve their masters. An eventual alliance of this new caste/subspecies with the original Klingons (now used primarily as front line troops and slave labor) allowed them to overthrow their conquerors and use their weapons and ships to destroy every sign of them in the galaxy so as to never be reminded of the shame of their warrior culture being slaves.

From these ruins of this civilization, the first interstellar Klingon Empire would have risen to replace it. Using the same tools with which they were conquered they had a clear technological advantage over their galactic neighbors, but lagged behind other powers in the coming millennia due to lacking the superior intelligence and drive for innovation that first gave it rise (in addition to an over-reliance upon the martial traditions that evolved into a strict religious order of family and honor.)

Just throwing it out there.
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Old August 26 2014, 03:41 PM   #18
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Re: A History of the Klingon People

I've always been uncomfortable with those old non-canon stories about genetic engineering or different races of Klingons and the like, just because I feel it comes close to early 20th century racial theories. Can't the Klingons be civilized AND not look like us? Why do they need an elite genetic caste? Has this ever been the case in human history? It's a bit simple, like something out of 1960s Marvel Comics, rather than how a nation really develops.

I don't accept the idea of 'Imperial Klingons' and 'Non-Imperial Klingons' (precluded by on-screen evidence now anyway). I also believe that the infection rate of the Augment virus was close to 100%, as this explains TOS better than the idea that there were ridged Klingons hiding somewhere in Kirk's era but none of them commanded starships.
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Old August 27 2014, 02:58 AM   #19
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Re: A History of the Klingon People

Well the myth says that their gods created a second Klingon and that the two united were the gods' doom.

You have to admit that a lot of what we see of the Klingons does not appear to be a society that dedicates a lot to the advancement of knowledge and science. It makes more sense that their technology would primarily be appropriated from their conquests or demanded as tribute from weaker neighbors. Did we ever see a Klingon scientist, or really any Klingon that wasn't constantly going on about Honor this and Tradition that, until they specifically included one in Enterprise?

The "second heart" Klingons may well have been where the foreheads come from, rather than from the unaltered population. That kind of detail isn't important. It isn't about what they look like, but how they behave. How long is a thoughtful analytic mind going to survive in Klingon society once they start challenging the norms or arguing with their superiors about some project they're on?
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Old August 27 2014, 12:57 PM   #20
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Re: A History of the Klingon People

Venardhi wrote: View Post
Well the myth says that their gods created a second Klingon and that the two united were the gods' doom.

You have to admit that a lot of what we see of the Klingons does not appear to be a society that dedicates a lot to the advancement of knowledge and science. It makes more sense that their technology would primarily be appropriated from their conquests or demanded as tribute from weaker neighbors. Did we ever see a Klingon scientist, or really any Klingon that wasn't constantly going on about Honor this and Tradition that, until they specifically included one in Enterprise?

The "second heart" Klingons may well have been where the foreheads come from, rather than from the unaltered population. That kind of detail isn't important. It isn't about what they look like, but how they behave. How long is a thoughtful analytic mind going to survive in Klingon society once they start challenging the norms or arguing with their superiors about some project they're on?
Thats the thing I dont like about TNG/DS9/VOY's portrayal of Klingons. In another thread we managed to pin down the exact moment when this problem first arose, and it was after the episode 'Heart of Glory'. In Heart of Glory, the narrow minded Klingons were portrayed as obsessive anarchonisms - they were never meant to be mainstream Klingons, but rather atavistic reactionaries. But afterwards, they were taken by some of the writers as a sort of template for the more one-dimensional portrayals of later eras.

I refuse to think they are all inept - I choose to think we came across a string of bad examples. This fits better with the more intellectual TOS Klingons (including those from The Undiscovered Country).

I don't accept the barbarian portrayal, as it makes little sense. No culture could survive in space if it didn't even understand the technology it was using; and if it understood the technology, it could develop said technology. We don't see alien engineers on Klingon ships or anything. Tribute might make sense in an ancient context, but not in an era when concepts as complex as state espionage are a regular feature of war.
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