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Old August 21 2014, 06:57 PM   #61
Marsden
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Re: Real-world religions on futuristic sci-fi

alpha_leonis wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Phlox did once. He said he attended Mass at St. Peter's Basilica in Rome.
But Phlox isn't human, and he almost certainly isn't Catholic. I'm looking for human examples.
Why wouldn't he be? Did he say otherwise?

alpha_leonis wrote: View Post
Context of the question: my wife is actually an ordained Christian minister of a progressive denomination. But she laughed out loud watching Spock's funeral in TWOK, when Scotty started playing "Amazing Grace". Her comment: it's not like Spock should conceivably be a Christian. He's not even human.
That seems like a really close minded attitude. Just because a sophont is not from Earth doesn't mean they can't be what they want. That's specist.

FreezeC77 wrote: View Post
I would think finding intelligent life on other planets would be a drastic blow to most established religions on this planet (especially those who are of the Judao-Christian origin)
I don't see that, although I remember in the old Mechwarroir rpg background info, it said Muslems were rather put off by space travel and stayed on Earth.

I don't know why any religion would be bothered by more people unless their whole basis is there is no more people, in which they'd be pretty much out.

And just to add, I thought the atheists, Garibaldi and Marcus, were well done on Babylon 5, too. They weren't constantly trying to mock the characters that had a religon or make them feel stupid for believing in something bigger than themselves. I really liked the one time that Garabaldi told Sinclair, "You better pray to that God of yours Jeff..." something, they were having trouble. It might be seen as mocking, but he said it as We need all the help we can get and I thought it was two freinds with different beliefs interacting in a believable manner.
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Old August 21 2014, 11:07 PM   #62
Ensign_Redshirt
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Re: Real-world religions on futuristic sci-fi

Marsden wrote: View Post
alpha_leonis wrote: View Post
Context of the question: my wife is actually an ordained Christian minister of a progressive denomination. But she laughed out loud watching Spock's funeral in TWOK, when Scotty started playing "Amazing Grace". Her comment: it's not like Spock should conceivably be a Christian. He's not even human.
That seems like a really close minded attitude. Just because a sophont is not from Earth doesn't mean they can't be what they want. That's specist.
Besides, he's half-human. Why can't half-humans be Christians?
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Old August 22 2014, 12:57 PM   #63
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Re: Real-world religions on futuristic sci-fi

[QUOTE=T'Girl;9611077]
Melakon wrote: View Post
In one episode, Picard waxes philosophic about his belief in a afterlife, although not tied to any particular religion.



Indeed, in "Where Silence Has Lease". The exact exchange between Picard and Data, after the latter has asked "what is death?":

PICARD:
Well, Data, you're asking probably the most difficult of all questions. Some see it as a changing into an indestructible form, forever unchanging. They believe that the purpose of the entire universe is to then maintain that form in an Earth-like garden which will give delight and pleasure through all eternity. On the other hand, there are those who hold to the idea of our blinking into nothingness, with all our experiences, hopes and dreams merely a delusion.

DATA:
Which do you believe, sir?

PICARD:
Considering the marvellous complexity of our universe, its clockwork perfection, its balances of this against that, matter, energy, gravitation, time, dimension, I believe that our existence must be more than either of these philosophies. That what we are goes beyond Euclidian and other practical measuring systems and that our existence is part of a reality beyond what we understand now as reality.
Deep stuff, and to me suggests a spiritualism about Picard, even if it isn't a subscription to a specific faith itself.


Lapis Exilis wrote: View Post
Roddenberry was a sworn atheist and fairly hostile to Christianity.
Except when he wasn't, like inviting the minister to his son's naming ceremony. Granted, it was a bit of a stunt (he invited other faith representation as well, on order to "cover all possibilities").


Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
FreezeC77 wrote: View Post
I would think finding intelligent life on other planets would be a drastic blow to most established religions on this planet (especially those who are of the Judao-Christian origin)
I wouldn't think so. I've read nothing anywhere in the Bible that denies the existence of alien life. If I ever met such life, I'd view it as yet another part of God's creation.

Good point - Christians would just accept that God made life on lots of different planets.

Hey, it would explain why all the Trek aliens look a little alike - same creator
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Old August 22 2014, 08:03 PM   #64
Set Harth
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Re: Real-world religions on futuristic sci-fi

They already explained that in season 6 of TNG...
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Old August 23 2014, 07:41 PM   #65
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Re: Real-world religions on futuristic sci-fi

[QUOTE=Trek Survivor;10012867]
T'Girl wrote: View Post
Melakon wrote: View Post
In one episode, Picard waxes philosophic about his belief in a afterlife, although not tied to any particular religion.



Indeed, in "Where Silence Has Lease". The exact exchange between Picard and Data, after the latter has asked "what is death?"
One of the best lines of the series.
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Old August 24 2014, 03:00 AM   #66
Masiral
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Re: Real-world religions on futuristic sci-fi

alpha_leonis wrote: View Post
Context of the question: my wife is actually an ordained Christian minister of a progressive denomination. But she laughed out loud watching Spock's funeral in TWOK, when Scotty started playing "Amazing Grace". Her comment: it's not like Spock should conceivably be a Christian. He's not even human.
The end of Kirk's eulogy: "Of all the souls I have encountered in my travels, his was the most...human."

Marsden wrote: View Post
alpha_leonis wrote: View Post
Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Phlox did once. He said he attended Mass at St. Peter's Basilica in Rome.
But Phlox isn't human, and he almost certainly isn't Catholic. I'm looking for human examples.
Why wouldn't he be? Did he say otherwise?
Well, what's the Catholic Church's stance on polygamy? I imagine that would be a sticking point for Phlox.
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Old August 24 2014, 10:32 AM   #67
grendelsbayne
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Re: Real-world religions on futuristic sci-fi

Masiral wrote: View Post
alpha_leonis wrote: View Post
Context of the question: my wife is actually an ordained Christian minister of a progressive denomination. But she laughed out loud watching Spock's funeral in TWOK, when Scotty started playing "Amazing Grace". Her comment: it's not like Spock should conceivably be a Christian. He's not even human.
The end of Kirk's eulogy: "Of all the souls I have encountered in my travels, his was the most...human."

Marsden wrote: View Post
alpha_leonis wrote: View Post

But Phlox isn't human, and he almost certainly isn't Catholic. I'm looking for human examples.
Why wouldn't he be? Did he say otherwise?
Well, what's the Catholic Church's stance on polygamy? I imagine that would be a sticking point for Phlox.
The Old Testament doesn't have a problem with polygamy. Who's to say the Catholic church hasn't changed that particular doctrine in the coming centuries? (Certainly a wwiii apocalyptic environment could trigger social changes aimed at restoring the population).
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Old August 24 2014, 01:20 PM   #68
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Re: Real-world religions on futuristic sci-fi

Does the Old Testament endorse Polygamy, or is that just something Solomon did?
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Old August 24 2014, 05:13 PM   #69
Rķu rķu, chķu
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Re: Real-world religions on futuristic sci-fi

^ It doesn't "endorse" the practice. Some people did it, but it's not being advocated or commanded or anything like that. Just something that happens.
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Old August 24 2014, 05:45 PM   #70
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Re: Real-world religions on futuristic sci-fi

Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Does the Old Testament endorse Polygamy, or is that just something Solomon did?
Jacob had two wives and two concubines.
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Old August 24 2014, 05:57 PM   #71
Rķu rķu, chķu
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Re: Real-world religions on futuristic sci-fi

^ And probably not a moment's rest. *runs away*
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Old August 24 2014, 09:32 PM   #72
suarezguy
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Re: Real-world religions on futuristic sci-fi

One thing I've been intrigued by is how Roddenberry and Meyer, for all their differences, seemed to think humans and others in Starfleet would be overwhelmingly atheist, with McCoy and Spock referring to Genesis as myth (the latter as ancient myth) and Valeris not even recognizing a representation of the expulsion.

alpha_leonis wrote: View Post
But the vast majority of human sci-fi characters follow no religion whatsoever, sometimes being even openly hostile to religion (I'm thinking specifically of Captain Picard in "Who Watches the Watchers" -- but in that case he was openly opposed to the formation of a religion based on him personally.) I'm curious why that pattern tends to emerge in future-fiction
I would imagine that a lot of the writers had some antagonism toward the religions of their day (and may have wanted to imply that they would diminish as progress) or, even without hostility, felt they couldn't write a religious character convincingly enough or it would introduce too much conflict between characters and distraction from the main plots.
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Old August 24 2014, 09:44 PM   #73
Greg Cox
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Re: Real-world religions on futuristic sci-fi

suarezguy wrote: View Post
One thing I've been intrigued by is how Roddenberry and Meyer, for all their differences, seemed to think humans and others in Starfleet would be overwhelmingly atheist, with McCoy and Spock referring to Genesis as myth (the latter as ancient myth) and Valeris not even recognizing a representation of the expulsion.
Heck, this goes back to "The Cage" when Pike's hellfire-and-brimstone torture is attributed to "a fable you once heard in your childhood."

And, honestly, I'm not sure why anyone would expect Valeris to recognize an image out of Earth mythology when she's not even half-human like Spock is. There must be thousands of creation myths in the Federation alone; there's no way even a Vulcan could be familiar with every cultural reference on every planet.

The expulsion from Paradise is a common theme in Western art and culture, on the planet Earth, but on Andor or Vulcan or Romulus? We might as well expect Sulu to immediately recognize a scene from Argellian myth or history.

This isn't even necessarily a religious thing. Would Valeris recognize a painting of, say, Aphrodite rising from the foam, Arthur receiving Excalibur from the Lady of the Lake, or even Washington crossing the Delaware?

Maybe she just never took Terran Humanities 101?
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Old August 25 2014, 01:58 PM   #74
Timewalker
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Re: Real-world religions on futuristic sci-fi

Mr. Laser Beam wrote: View Post
Timewalker wrote: View Post
Alidar Jarok wrote: View Post
Does the Old Testament endorse Polygamy, or is that just something Solomon did?
Jacob had two wives and two concubines.
^ And probably not a moment's rest. *runs away*
Well, probably not with Leah, anyway. They had six boys and one girl together.
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Old August 27 2014, 05:05 PM   #75
suarezguy
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Re: Real-world religions on futuristic sci-fi

Greg Cox wrote: View Post
suarezguy wrote: View Post
One thing I've been intrigued by is how Roddenberry and Meyer, for all their differences, seemed to think humans and others in Starfleet would be overwhelmingly atheist, with McCoy and Spock referring to Genesis as myth (the latter as ancient myth) and Valeris not even recognizing a representation of the expulsion.
Heck, this goes back to "The Cage" when Pike's hellfire-and-brimstone torture is attributed to "a fable you once heard in your childhood."

And, honestly, I'm not sure why anyone would expect Valeris to recognize an image out of Earth mythology when she's not even half-human like Spock is. There must be thousands of creation myths in the Federation alone; there's no way even a Vulcan could be familiar with every cultural reference on every planet.
True but Valeris was at the top of the class and in both 23rd and 24th century Starfleet personnel have generally been characterized as overwhelmingly human so I would assume historical and cultural influence in training and socializing would also be Earth-centric. If so this emphasizes how much humans were portrayed as moving away from awareness, let alone taking seriously, major religious ideas.
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