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Go Back   The Trek BBS > Entertainment & Interests > Science Fiction & Fantasy > Doctor Who

Doctor Who "Bigger on the inside..."

View Poll Results: Grade "Deep Breath"
Scottish! 52 33.33%
Good 74 47.44%
Average 17 10.90%
Bad 8 5.13%
I miss Matt Smith 5 3.21%
Voters: 156. You may not vote on this poll

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Old August 24 2014, 06:56 PM   #106
davejames
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Re: 8X01 "Deep Breath" Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Actually, watching the first scene again, not only is Clara still very much calling him The Doctor from the outset, but she seems to be suggesting that something has "gone wrong" with the regeneration because of his odd behavior and how much older he now looks.

So obviously she's aware of the basic regeneration concept and that the Doctor just went through it; she just doesn't know about all the little rules and details of the process.
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Old August 24 2014, 07:18 PM   #107
inflatabledalek
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Re: 8X01 "Deep Breath" Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

On the t-rex size issue, there was actual dialogue where Jenny pointed out it was far too large based on the fossils, only for her wife to claim there really were dinosaurs that big and she should know.

Generally a good fun episode with a fine performance from Capaldi (it really didn't need the Smith cameo). It did however feel as if Moffat had written a first draft, then looked at it and and gone "Balls, I've done this before haven't I?" and then decided to make it a Girl in the Fireplace sequel so as to excuse the reused ideas.

Prequel.

Equal.

I really wouldn't travel on any 51st century spaceship either way.

The Q&A was mostly good fun, worth it for the Moff taking the piss out of a five year old (though let's face it, it was probably Martha Rose Amelia's dad who was really asking the question), for Capaldi getting a bit tired and emotional and talking with great sadness about the death's of Barry Letts' and... Nick Briggs (I really hope Mr. Briggs hasn't died tonight, that would be awful. I'm guessing he meant to say Nick Courtney and got a bit confused. It did take him two attempts to say Nick Briggs after initially saying Nick Gibbs....), and the prequel talk from Stax was as lovely as ever.

The cinema wasn't as packed as it was for Day of the Doctor (then; full, now; three quarters full), but I suspect the BBC are working out the mean average between the two right now and, assuming they like the sums, we'll have an actual Doctor Who film before Capaldi leaves the role.

Oh, and Zoe Ball had to really struggle to stop Moff and Capaldi having a really in-depth discussion about whether the Mondosian Cybermen should come back (Capaldi wants the proper Tenth Planet version realised with modern effects; the Moff was at best open to just having This Universe's Cybermen in an episode unambiguously).
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Old August 24 2014, 07:43 PM   #108
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Re: 8X01 "Deep Breath" Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

So SM forgot that he wasn't writing for Sherlock, judging by the interplay between Watson and Holmes in the restaurant scene.
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Old August 24 2014, 08:16 PM   #109
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Re: 8X01 "Deep Breath" Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

JRoss wrote: View Post
So SM forgot that he wasn't writing for Sherlock, judging by the interplay between Watson and Holmes in the restaurant scene.
Though going back to an early scene, Sherlock never ate the person responsible for the crime though.
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Old August 24 2014, 08:22 PM   #110
auntiehill
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Re: 8X01 "Deep Breath" Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

I liked the episode but didn't like the way Clara was written, as others have said. It didn't feel "right," somehow. Liked the new credits but didn't like the theme; it's a bit too shrill, makes my bad ear hurt.

Love Capaldi, loved seeing Jenny, Vastra and Strax---just didn't buy Clara falling apart like she did.Maybe it was her dialogue--it just put me off a little. I thought the episode was unnecessarily padded out---didn't need the dinosaur at all, but I was very sad to see it killed off so horribly after we'd just heard how sad, lonely and frightened it was.
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Old August 24 2014, 08:43 PM   #111
publiusr
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Re: 8X01 "Deep Breath" Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Let me start off by saying that I also really loved that after show.

davejames wrote: View Post
And I didn't get the sense that she was suddenly unaware of the concept of regeneration. It felt more like she was simply in denial that this had actually happened to her Doctor.
Bingo.

Jax wrote: View Post
The Matt Smith cameo was awesome and made me realize how bad I will miss 11.
In a sense, we were always saying goodbye to him--much of his stories were around his own impending death.

lvsxy808 wrote: View Post
I thought the use of the clockwork droids was very good. Not a villain you expected to see again, but very cleverly used as a metaphor for the Doctor himself, which i didn't even catch until it was pretty much spelled out.
I kept filling in dialog in my own mind, of the clockwork gentleman asking the doctor why he doesn't jump--how he is looking for Gallifrey--his Promised Land. But of course--he didn't even know he was talking to a time lord.

Emperor-Tiberius wrote: View Post

Capaldi really is the most confused of the Doctors after regeneration, that we've seen in a while.He really does have a different gravitas from the get-go, and is far more serious than any Doctor since, well, the Sixth.
The Sixth still had the worst post-regen problem--at least Capaldi (thank you Chris Hardwick for the proper pronunciation) didn't try to kill Clara like how Six attacked Peri.

Peter still strikes me as one of the most lethal of the Doctors--I half expect him to punch through a Dalek shell next week, rip the Kaled mutant free, and start gnawing it in two as the Daleks flee in terror. He isn't going to put up with it.

Goodbye Willy Wonka...hello HOUSE.
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Old August 24 2014, 08:56 PM   #112
JHarper
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Re: 8X01 "Deep Breath" Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

It was good. Not as good as I wanted it to be, but not as bad as I'd feared. The thing I think it really suffered from was not enough Capaldi screen time, and dragging out some of the Vastra-Jenny-Clara chat scenes a little too long.

Really looking forward to the next episode!
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Old August 24 2014, 08:59 PM   #113
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Re: 8X01 "Deep Breath" Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

I really enjoyed the series premiere. I wasn't sure at first...I found the middle portion descending into Moffat-written incoherence (I found it odd too that Clara would act the way she did when she knows the Doctor regenerates) but I thought it really picked up nicely once the Doctor and Clara meet at the restaurant.

I thought it was a strong debut for Capaldi. His accent was a little difficult to understand at times but still felt like the Doctor and I'm intrigued by his new direction. With the Doctor, it's not a single episode that judges him but an entire season.

Jenna Coleman also did a really good job and Clara had some strong stuff once she got down into the spaceship. The direction of the holding her breath scene was impressive.

Was spoiled by the Matt Smith cameo months ago. While I agree it wasn't needed, I enjoyed it anyway. I laughed too at the "He sounds old" comment. I always liked Matt Smith's Doctor, energetic and incredibly likeable. I just don't think he was helped by the writing of that era, which is still around now.

I thought the villains were a good choice and the production values/FX was outstanding as ever.

I was very happy with the start of this new series and I'm looking forward to more.
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Old August 24 2014, 09:19 PM   #114
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Re: 8X01 "Deep Breath" Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Sci wrote: View Post
Oh, bull. Eleven and Clara were about an inch away from dating -- they were both infatuated with the other, neither one objected when other people called them the other's S.O. So, yeah, it's perfectly understandable that she'd be more attached to the particular incarnation she had gotten to care for, and that she'd want to change him back.

I mean, it's regeneration -- it's not accurate to try to equate it with Human biology. The incarnation whom she fell for is dead, and this incarnation isn't infatuated with her -- so the psychological effect is going to simultaneously be like a death and a breakup. She has to accept that his old self is dead and mourn him, yet also accept that his new self loves her platonically rather than romantically.
Yeah, it seemed like the episode was trying to say that Clara should treat 12 as 11 wearing a Capaldi mask when it isn't like that at all. Each regeneration has had a distinct personality and even drive. I'm not sure even 11 and 12 themselves (himself?) would like to hang out with the other.
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Old August 24 2014, 10:29 PM   #115
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Re: 8X01 "Deep Breath" Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

I don't blame Clara for being a bit out of sorts. She'd been through a lot in the previous 24 hours. Been under attack by daleks, been abandoned by the Doctor twice, had to put together an entire Thanksgiving dinner, and come up with an excuse to explain the Doctor, seen him get old and thought he was dead, seen him change faces, been in a crash landing, been chased by a giant dinosaur. All that's enough to stretch anyone a little past the breaking point.


Mr. Adventure wrote: View Post

Yeah, it seemed like the episode was trying to say that Clara should treat 12 as 11 wearing a Capaldi mask when it isn't like that at all. Each regeneration has had a distinct personality and even drive. I'm not sure even 11 and 12 themselves (himself?) would like to hang out with the other.
Well if that helps keep her around long enough to realize that 12 really is a different person, I don't see the problem. Shes been through a shock, and it seems baby steps is the best answer.
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Old August 25 2014, 12:06 AM   #116
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Re: 8X01 "Deep Breath" Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

I actually enjoyed this. Maybe it was the negativity from the leaked script making me expect the worst, but this was actually a really enjoyable and entertaining episode. I've seen better episodes, premieres and introductions to new Doctors, but I've also seen worse in all those categories, so this gets a passing grade for me.

I'll agree with what's been said all along and that Clara's reaction to the regeneration doesn't make that much sense since she already knows about regeneration and what to expect. In fact, I think it is a missed opportunity, for the first time in 50 years and a dozen previous regenerations this is the first time the witnessing companion knew what to expect and instead of playing with that we get the same old "the Doctor has changed and I don't know who he is anymore."

I liked the use of the Paternoster Gang in this episode more than usual. It's nice Vastra and Jenny got to be comedic rather that Strax being the sole source of comedy relief, and it's nice to see how Clara inserted into the gang and fit. Sadly, I don't know any spoilers indicating the gang will be back, meaning this might very well be the last time we see Clara with them.

I didn't care for Matt Smith's cameo. A redundant passing the torch which has already been passed and actually ruined the momentum of the new Doctor. So we have Capaldi, in costume with sort of new console room, essentially declaring "I'm here, I'm the Doctor now." And then we get Smith popping back to say all those things that should be said in the regeneration scene and were. Redundant and pointless.
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Old August 25 2014, 12:14 AM   #117
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Re: 8X01 "Deep Breath" Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

So many have compared Capaldi's Doctor to Six. For me, I was kinda seeing Sneaky Seven, if he had been paired with Teagan (Rather than with Ace). Not sure if I'll still see that relationship next episode, but, it felt like that
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Old August 25 2014, 12:20 AM   #118
Mr Awe
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Re: 8X01 "Deep Breath" Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Good! I think the start was a bit slow and the story didn't warrant the longer length. It would've been better if it had been shorter. It suffered from the Doctor doesn't do much syndrome the plagues some of the previous post-regeneration stories (old and new series).

But, once it got going, I enjoyed it. Liked Capaldi's portrayal of the Doctor and think it'll be a nice change based on the first story.

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Old August 25 2014, 12:22 AM   #119
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Re: 8X01 "Deep Breath" Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

Sindatur wrote: View Post
So many have compared Capaldi's Doctor to Six. For me, I was kinda seeing Sneaky Seven, if he had been paired with Teagan (Rather than with Ace). Not sure if I'll still see that relationship next episode, but, it felt like that
Interesting comparison. I'll admit, I didn't see any similarities with Colin Baker either, at least not in Deep Breath. But Sylvester McCoy, there could be something there.
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Old August 25 2014, 12:27 AM   #120
davejames
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Re: 8X01 "Deep Breath" Grading/Discussion)(SPOILERS!)

The Wormhole wrote: View Post
I didn't care for Matt Smith's cameo. A redundant passing the torch which has already been passed and actually ruined the momentum of the new Doctor. So we have Capaldi, in costume with sort of new console room, essentially declaring "I'm here, I'm the Doctor now." And then we get Smith popping back to say all those things that should be said in the regeneration scene and were. Redundant and pointless.
I don't know, I think we needed that scene in order to get that great moment of vulnerability from Capaldi's Doctor at the end, as he feels like Clara just can't see that he's really the same guy she just talked to on the phone.

Not only does it make you instantly feel for him and see that he really does need Clara's help and acceptance, but it makes you understand why Clara would want to stay with someone as outwardly cold and abrasive as Capaldi in the first place.

Because otherwise I'm not sure I really would have bought her wanting to stay (especially when she's not obligated to follow him around like companions of the past have been).
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