Spoiler: Suicide Mission Not necessarily. My final team was Grunt and Thane. Otherwise, my choices were the same as yours and everyone made it out alive.
Spoiler: Curious Maybe having Garrus and Zaeed left behind made the difference ? Whatever happens, the guide I read strongly recommended getting Mordin out of the way. I perhaps would have made different choices for the final team in hindsight since Tali and Jack's abilities were not best suited to fighting the Collectors.
On my second playthrough I saved everyone by going as follows; Spoiler: Selections Shafts - Legion 1st Fire Team - Garrus Biotic - Samara 2nd Fire Team - Garrus Escort - Tali Final Team - Miranda & Samara Mordin stayed with the group holding the Collectors back but survived. I think as long as anyone's loyal in that group then they'll survive. 3rd playthrough now as Renegade Adept FemShep. Loads of fun!
^ Spoiler: Mordin Maybe this has been patched or something, but supposedly there was an issue where Mordin could randomly die even if loyal if he tries to hold the line with the others at the end. I had everybody loyal, but I didn't want to risk it so I got him out of the way. Spoiler: A funny thing I read If you choose to side with Morinth rather than Samara in Samara's loyalty mission and thus she joins your team, you can pursue her as a romantic interest. You can finally sleep with her after the end credits but she kills you!
The Mordin thing isn't a glitch, he just has a randomized chance, no matter where he goes, what he does or who he's with - in addition to the general odds the others work with. I don't really have a problem with it, I just wish that all of the squadmates had it. Doing everything right shouldn't ensure everyone survives the "suicide mission". Real life doesn't work that way. ----- UPDATE Struggling to finish my second runthrough as a ManShep Paragon. Except for the occassional different side character from ME1 popping up and the different take on romances, Paragon is BORING. It's why Carth/Alistair/Kaiden suck so much. Renegade FemShep was so much fun, I just want to start up a NG+ now and forget the other playthroughs. When someone's all blah blah blah in a game, I don't want to understand their plight and save them from themselves, I want to shoot them in the face.
^I would find it very surprising if, after getting everyone loyal, spending ages finding enough materials to upgrade the ship thoroughly and picking the right person for every job, one of my team just died randomly - especially when (as much as I hate the bloody things) there's an achievement for keeping them all alive. I'm their leader, it's my job to bring them all home safe, I would feel that I hadn't done my job if one of them died.
And that would be a valid reaction ... just like in real life. You think the guys in Afghanistan and Iraq don't want the No One Left Behind achievement? Realistically, it shouldn't be possible to succeed in the mission WITHOUT losing at least half your team and most for bullshit reasons like the valves jam and the tunnel rat gets fucked no matter how fast you are, not hold the line "ra ra ra" actions after rousing speeches. It would certainly be more dramatic. In ME1, my Renegade FemShep sacrificed Kaiden because he was with Kirahee on the distraction team. He was her love interest. That was a tough choice. Save the romance or secure the nuke? Granted, my FemShep wanted to romance Ashley and had to settle for best friends, but still, there was no way to save everyone. ME2 should have done something similar, I think. Each team that was diverted should have had a chance to be overrun, isolated and left behind, captured and turned or something, above and beyond whether they were loyal and appropriate to the task. Don't get me wrong, the end was fun and cool and all, but it could have been better.
^It's entirely possible for that to happen, and it's your fault when it does. It was hard enough choosing between Ashley and Kaiden in the last game and trying to convince Wrex to stand down (unfortunately, Ashley shot him).
This is incorrect in the sense that it isn't randomized. There are rules, which we were discussing upthread, they're just not explicitly stated in game. But basically, some characters are better in a defensive situation then others, and if you don't have enough good ones left to hold the line at the end (either because they're dead or you they're in your party/sent back with the crew) then the ones who are worse at it start dying... and Mordin is first in line because he has the lowest "defense" score. In other words, the issue is not quite picking the right people for the right jobs at the end.
^Well, it is, in so much that it's important to pick people like Grunt and Zaeed to stay behind. They're the sort of guys that, if you said "nobody gets through this door", would guarantee that nobody got through that door.
I know that. I specifically said I wanted something more than oops, I sent Grunt into the tunnels - rookie move. I want the chance that the valves lock up and Tali is doomed no matter what I do, a bulkhead fails and the second team gets spaced mid-encounter or, god forbid it, the badguys actually react to my moves and effectively counter the team that can't fall back on me, the player, to save the day with a heavy weapon strike or hit the reload button. I also want my teammates to be able to revive me if I drop and there's phoenix down available. Other games do this. Why not you, ME?
EDITED FOR MISTAKE: That none shall pass bullshit is movie logic. They may be better equipped to hold off the horde or whatever, but it shouldn't be a hard and fast certainty the tank can actually hold off an army. Where's the tension on my second playthrough? Do I deliberately put people in the wrong slots like Paragon ManShep is a retard or what? Do I choose someone I KNOW won't cut it, even though on the fly they might seem capable (say Miranda for the biotic)? Why am I forced to insert drama into the game? I'm not getting paid to make it, I shouldn't have to artificially jigger with things to make them interesting. There should be no way for someone to create a FAQ on the suicide mission beyond "this or that TEND to work but shit could hit the fan and you're screwed." No one, including the player, should be assured survival in a suicide mission if they do A or B sidequest beforehand. Especially when the whole advertising theme was Shepard might not make it. As it is, guess what, just do A, B and C and he will ... every single time. And there should be no saving the game once you start the suicide mission. You should have to slog through the whole damn thing again if you bite it or the power fails. Otherwise, just reload that section if your favorite character just bought it. I know what was being discussed upthread. I was discussing it at the time. Mordin is a special case. Mordin has an inherent randomized chance of dying no matter what you do. You can have everyone loyal, put them in their ideal slots and send Mordin back with the rescuees and he can STILL die.
What you're basically asking for is a diceroll to determine who lives or dies. There's no tension there either because your choices are then meaningless. This sort of RPG is about your choices and their consequences, not random results. Uh... how about no. If you can't restrain yourself from reloading after making a bad choice then that's your problem, don't hinder the rest of us because you lack willpower!
No, he is not a special case and he cannot randomly die. http://social.bioware.com/forum/1/topic/105/index/1117936&lf=8
Hinder you from what? The final sequence is like 30 mins. One save at the beginning and one at the start of the Terminator would be fine, but that second one isn't even necessary. Did it give you that much trouble? And sorry to break the illusion, buddy, but there's shit happening in the game that is ... wait for it ... a die roll. Whether Garrus' sniper shot hit's that Geth rocketeer behind waist-high cover is a modified die roll. Harbinger's AI pathfinding his way around that obstacle ... die roll. If THIS is TRUE ... chance of THAT. And I didn't have to reload the endgame to save people, I reloaded because I go whacked at one point or another. There was never any chance my team was going to die (except with Mordin, who can die at any time due to a low odds die roll). Do I send the techie for the techie problem or Grunt? Hmmmm... I need the best biotic! Do I send the multiclass or the pure biotic? Hmmmm... I need a team leader! Do I send the team leader or the lone wolf? Hmmmm... I'm sensing a pattern here. Faced with no real choices, my choices become meaningless. My real life choices aren't meaningless and whatever ends up happening is essentially a die roll. I work at being the best I can be and doing the "right" thing and then life takes over and shit happens and I live with it. I can't anticipate everything. There's no completionist FAQ for life. A game about "choices" and "consequences" and "suicide missions" should actually have those things in it. Yeah, I read that too, except I've re-un the final mission with my main playthough character, as well as read dozens of other's posts about doing everything right, and we've all had him die randomly.
The game explicitly tells you that you need a biotic, not "the best biotic" or even a "pure biotic". I'd be more accepting if that was a coin flip; instead, it's just bad writing.
You didn't think the final fight for the sake of humanity (this week) required the best of best? You thought, yeah, the B-team will work out just fine? Really? Ok. Look, you guys are perfectly satisfied with the ending. That's cool. I still enjoy this game even though the end was weak for me. I wouldn't play it multiple times or bother talking about it if I didn't enjoy it, but I'm going to bow out at this point, cause I feel like I'm derailing the thread with arguments. If I stumble across some new interesting stuff during a playthrough, I'll throw it out there. Otherwise...
I don't think that Samara or Jack or... green guy... are "the best of the best". I was told that someone else would work as well. The writers lied.