STAR TREK INTO DARKNESS - Grading & Discussion [SPOILERS]

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies: Kelvin Universe' started by Agent Richard07, Apr 18, 2013.

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Grade the movie...

  1. A+

    18.8%
  2. A

    20.6%
  3. A-

    13.2%
  4. B+

    11.1%
  5. B

    7.9%
  6. B-

    4.1%
  7. C+

    5.7%
  8. C

    5.0%
  9. C-

    3.5%
  10. D+

    1.5%
  11. D

    1.6%
  12. D-

    1.3%
  13. F

    5.7%
  1. Mr. Laser Beam

    Mr. Laser Beam Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I thought ST III was great. I had never seen Taxi so that was my first time seeing Christopher Lloyd, and I thought he owned the role of Kruge.

    And not only that, but John Larroquette as a Klingon as well. How cool is that? :D

    (One of my favorite bits in the whole film, actually, is when Kirk first finds out that David is dead and he just sort of staggers back against the command chair. I don't think I've ever seen Kirk more defeated than that.)
     
  2. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    TSFS is almost unwatchable for me, but I watch it anyway. Godawful IMO but still full of Trek lore. And I will always enjoy seeing the TOS characters in the films.
     
  3. Mach5

    Mach5 Admiral Admiral

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    It's not THAT bad. :vulcan:

    It had nice moments. Some decent visuals too, especially the space dock scenes.
     
  4. davejames

    davejames Vice Admiral Admiral

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    The Bird of Prey never seemed more menacing than it did in that movie.
     
  5. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Last night my dreams all had the piano music from STID in the background of them.

    ... such a haunting piece

    [yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTYcxIFBSCE[/yt]
     
  6. T'Bonz

    T'Bonz Romulan Curmudgeon Administrator

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    I loved STIII.
     
  7. HaventGotALife

    HaventGotALife Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    [yt]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yc81Un8ltS4[/yt]
     
  8. HaventGotALife

    HaventGotALife Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

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    I've been thinking. I would've liked it better if Kirk had been learning all this time (end of the first movie to this one), was first officer, and then Pike dies. Nero puts him on the Enterprise. I think the emotional beats of having to go against Admiral Marcus (a father-type figure), of having to decipher whether to trust Harrison or not, I think it all works better if he hasn't tasted the chair yet. It felt like it was 5 minutes between being busted down to the Academy before he was Captain again. And that's what was playing in my head during Pike's dress-down. I think they screwed up with the ending of '09.

    Just an idea.
     
  9. Franklin

    Franklin Vice Admiral Admiral

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    That scene (last couple minutes of the movie) got two great laughs in the theater. The first was when McCoy pointed to his head. The second was when Spock raised his eyebrow.

    I thought it was OK. The captain of the Excelsior was made to be too much the preening fool. Things were sometimes too easy for our heroes. They never really seemed to be in real danger. But this is hardly the only Trek movie with quibbles.

    This was the first real ensemble Trek movie where everyone had something important to do and good character moments, too, a story format all Trek movies (TOS and TNG) followed after that.
     
  10. Belz...

    Belz... Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    And yet he has the best alternative to "ahead warp factor X" and "engage !" : EXECUTE !
     
  11. Flake

    Flake Commodore Commodore

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    TSFS had really great character moments and all the crew got something to do and showed they really cared about each other and Spock. The Enterprise got blown up and McCoy says that great line whilst stood on a mountain watching the ashes of the Enterprise streak across the sky...

    Spacedock escape, Kirk vs Kruge in the midst of a disintegrating planet. The Klingons murdering David, Pon Farr!, Self Destruct sequence. Vulcan scenes, the Excelsior, Grissom, BoP. So much was added to the Trek universe. Its great!
     
  12. Locutus of Bored

    Locutus of Bored Yo, Dawg! I Heard You Like Avatars... In Memoriam

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    [​IMG]

    I'm sending you all to the Federation Funny Farm. I love STIII. :(

    ;)
     
  13. Amaris

    Amaris Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Yeah, STIII had some great moments going for it.
     
  14. CorporalCaptain

    CorporalCaptain Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    :guffaw: You guys are killing me!

    Yes, it did. It truly did.

    But the same can be true of every Star Trek movie. Even Nemesis, which had Dina Meyer.
     
  15. Ovation

    Ovation Admiral Admiral

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    It did have Chekhov's very stylish ensemble. :shifty:
     
  16. CorporalClegg

    CorporalClegg Admiral Admiral

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    Hey, I think the first 90 minutes of TSFS are great. I even like Reverend Emmitt Lloyd as a Klingon. I just think the end sequence was in a major need of a re-edit. Honestly, I think Lenny could have could have cut a good five minutes out of it without losing anything while greatly improving the pacing.

    And please, don't call me tiny.
     
  17. trevanian

    trevanian Rear Admiral

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    He did already, at least a couple minutes anyway, that's how it got down to release length.

    There was a procession with Spock being carried up the mountain past all these Vulcan extras (Takei got to play one of them) and through the Vulcan Hall of Mystic Bullshit where the art department erected large photographic cutouts of the heads of famous Vulcans.

    (I'm sure it must have looked better than it sounds. Well, not entirely sure. Some of the snow covered cactus on Genesis looks like somebody just inverted a tripod or light stand and then threw a fuzzy white blanket over it. SERIOUS art department cheap-outs and creative failures on this one.)
     
  18. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Admiral Admiral

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    I seriously debated whether or not I wanted to post what I thought about Star Trek Into Darkness here; but I figure there are people who probably want to see my take, so I'll post it anyway. Or, more accurately, cut-and-paste.

    Make a note though: I do not have the time or energy to get into a prolonged argument. If someone wants to pick apart everything I posted point-by-point then bear in mind I will not get into it. I'm not interested.

    I'm here to post what I thought about the film and that's all.

    With that out of the way: as I said upthread, I thought the 2009 film was better.

    The problems I have with Star Trek Into Darkness have to do with STID itself and not the reboot in general:

    1. Why would Admiral Marcus need to revive Khan to figure out how to fight the Klingons? It would be like someone today reviving Napoleon to figure out how to fight the North Koreans. Second of all, Starfleet has had 100 years to prepare for the Klingons by this point. The two sides have always been portrayed as powers of equal strength. The Klingons are a threat, but they're not an overwhelming one. Humanity also seems savage and primitive enough that they don't need Khan's insights. The humans in the Abrams films, unlike the Roddenberry series, would fit right into today's world.

    2. Khan would never allow himself to become a pawn of Starfleet or Section 31. He'd never save Kirk from the Klingons. And he's not really that ruthless in this film. He should've killed Kirk right before beaming his corpse back to the Enterprise or fatally wounded him at least so he'd be dying and in as much pain as possible even as he intended to destroy the Enterprise. He does horrible things but he himself doesn't act villainous enough. The original Khan, as well as Kruge in "Star Trek III: The Search for Spock", were much more black-hatted, which is what Khan should be.

    3. The movie was supposed to show Kirk becoming more mature and growing into an adult. When he's repeatedly punching Khan, he's acting like a 15-year-old. When he constantly turns his head whenever a woman walks by, he's acting like a 14-year-old. When he's having a threesome, it's like a teenage boy's fantasy. I see nothing in the film that shows he became more mature. All I see is a kid who had a bad experience and a rough mission, then made a good speech at the end. He's not an adult. He's still reckless. He's still immature. I don't think this is the type of Captain you want to send out on a five-year mission into the unknown. Is this who the Admiralty wants representing the Federation? The only rationale I can think of is to get Kirk out of the way. It would make more sense to have him in Federation space, thinking outside the box to solve unconventional local problems where he can be of help and they can keep an eye on him.

    4. Spock is much too emotional. Spock shouldn't be yelling "KHAAAANNN!!!" and going crazy while fighting him. Spock shouldn't be jealous when Dr. Marcus is assigned as Science Officer and, yes, he was jealous. Spock wouldn't give Pike lip.

    5. The treatment of Doctor Marcus is extremely sexist. She undresses while Kirk is in the same room and the only reason is to show a shot of her in her underwear. When she screams after Admiral Marcus is killed, it's like something from out of a '50s B-movie. They can't even stay away from the sex jokes while McCoy is down with her while they perform "surgery" on the torpedo.

    6. Why would Khan's blood restore anything to life? They don't even try to explain it. It's just magic blood that can somehow reanimate every cell in your body. On a side-note: does that mean Khan could be immortal?

    7. There's an entire ethical dilemma that's not even touched upon. Now that the location of the Botany Bay is known, should these escaped supermen and superwomen stand trial? I'm surprised they were all just left in suspended animation but that could've been mitigated if there was at least a discussion about what should be done with them.

    8. There's absolutely no comparison between the scene when Spock was dying in "Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan" and the reverse scene in "Star Trek Into Darkness".

    9. When Spock is fighting Khan on Earth, it feels more like "The Matrix" than "Star Trek". And why just beam down Uhura to let Spock know not to kill Khan? Maybe Uhura is the only one who can get through to Spock quickly enough but she's Communications Officer. There should be at least one Security Officer as well.

    10. Why would that officer toward the beginning of "Into Darkness" blow up a building just because Khan/Harrison saved his daughter? Seems like an extreme thing to agree to.

    11. Starfleet has sensors, ships in orbit have sensors, spacedock has sensors. Why did it take Kirk to figure out that "Harrison" was about to attack where the briefing was being held?

    12. This is last because I realized as I was watching that this was the least of the film's problems: if you're going to cast someone to play Khan, it should either be a Hispanic actor, like Ricardo Montalban was, or an Indian. The fact that a 1967 episode and a 1982 film are more diverse than a 2013 film is inexcusable. This is not to slight Benedict Cumberbatch but I think he was miscast, unless they had him just be John Harrison. On that note: I understand that Khan went by a false identity but, if you're going to have the false identity, why not go the rest of the way and have McCoy or Khan himself mention that he was surgically altered?

    Fin.
     
    Last edited: May 24, 2013
  19. Amaris

    Amaris Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    True, and it's not like I can say you're wrong, because I'm a huge fan of TFF, and taste is subjective. Not like I'd say you were wrong anyway, because STIII does have some problems.

    Still, for me it's all about the characters, and this movie drives it home just how much we, by way of the characters, love (and miss) Spock. Plus, I just can't help but laugh at the scene where McCoy<Spock> tries to get a ride to the Genesis planet.
     
  20. Belz...

    Belz... Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

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    "Is there anything you wouldn't do for your family ?"