Opinions on Chakotay & Seven

That's the point we're making.
There is no attraction, they're just good friends.

 

Well, exactly.

Except adult behavior doesn't include kicking your current partner to the curb just because someone you fancied at one time is suddenly available.

Frankly, I think more of both characters to believe that either would do that.

 

You're assuming that most of the people you meet older than 25 are not still petty hedonistic children, and that that's exactly the behaviour which you can expect to seamlessly play out.

 

Adult behavior? Actually, I've observed that any adult relationship is at risk as long as there isn't a long-term commitment--and often it's at risk even if there is commitment.

"Kicking your current partner to the curb" is a rather emotionally-loaded term, don't you think? Perhaps a better one would be "following your heart"? Or "pursuing a better match"? An adult would do that rather than continue a relationship that is seriously flawed IMHO.

 

Unless it's J/C, of course.

That's assuming the relationship is seriously flawed.

I don't see it as seriously flawed.

Your mileage obviously varies.

 

Someone actually tries to claim here that there was no attraction between Janeway an Chakotay at all?! Wow. We have a candidate for the joke of the year, folks!

 

Yeah..I don't know about any of you here..but I definitely saw some sparks fly between Janeway and Chakotay sometimes! Perfect episode examples: "Workforce", where Chakotay proves to Janeway that he is who he says he is; "Resolutions", they really hit it off in that one!! Even though it wasn't implied on the show itself..I'd have to believe that they at least tried something; and "Elogium"-in that ep, Janeway asks
Chakotay that "in the future if I have any questions about mating behavior, I'll know where to go". You could cut the sexual tension with a knife on that bridge!
You'd have to be blind not to see the sparks flying between those two!

As for the C/7 relationship, last night I actually sat down and watched two episodes: "Natural Law" and "Human Error". Although their relationship makes me gag, I actually liked both of these episodes cause they both showed a different side to Seven of Nine. While I'm not a huge fan of hers by any means, I thought her character was sometimes vulnerable in different situations and that is what made Seven of Nine more appealing to the audience. So I do have respect for her even though I'm not a fan of hers at all.

 

I can assure you that I am not blind. My powers of observation are quite excellent as a matter of fact.

Just because I don't see things as you do does not make me defective in any way, and frankly, I'm surprised you'd say such a thing.

 

I saw a one-sided attraction, from Chakotay at Janeway. I never saw her return his attraction.

This is not a joke, BTW, and frankly, I'm surprised you'd be so derisive towards those who see things differently than you do.

IDIC is a wonderful lesson to learn from Star Trek, don't you think?

 

Okay folks lets keep it to the posts and not the posters.

BTW, this post will self-destruct in 5, 4, 3, 2, 1...

 

My sincere apologies, kimc, for having a tiny little problem with being called "a joke" and "blind" simply because I don't see things the same way J/Cers do.

I thought I was rather nice about it.

 

Enough already!

Once again this is for EVERYONE in the thread: Stick to the topic and leave personal comments out of it. Otherewise, I'm shutting this thread down.

 

There was a bit of attraction. Most of it was from Chakotay to Janeway. I would also appreciate it please, if we could refrain from referring to other people as "joke of the year", merely for having a differing opinion about a very subjective thing. I see the Chakotay/Seven pairing as a perfect match. I saw sparks between the two, propogated, I might add, by some very excellent fan fiction I read after the series was over.

Look. Simply because Chakotay is Janeway's first officer and he expresses a bit of interest and she in return, does not an intimate relationship make. To me, their relationship was professional but endearing, like good friends. There was nothing more, regardless of what a number of people wanted to see. What could have been, didn't happen. So it is mere speculation against what did happen. What we have is Chakotay and Seven, and I think they're very happy together.


J.

 

If C7 works for you then that's great. I personally see the attraction between J & C as going both ways. Ironically enough when I first noticed it back in Season 2 I found it a bit annoying but by Season 5's "Timeless" I was a convert! I had no idea it had such a huge online following until years later.

 

Funny, for me I wasn't feeling the J/C thing until I indulged in some really good fanfic - sort of tipped me in that direction. I had felt a relationship while in the DQ wouldn't be quite snuff but who would expect people to live monastically with no concrete hope of getting home in less than 25 years?

Janewy was very subtle in her hints toward Chakotay - I caught her making googly eyes a couple times but I felt her intrest in Victorian times offered and exlantion why she was so reticent.

When watching the serries in real time I was quite taken by surprise by the C/7 pairing as I had assumed the creators were working on a Moonlighting vibe - the mutually attracted partners who didn't consummate for fear of wrecking the friendship between J & C.

 

I can understand the J/C stuff. She's a woman in a position of authority, he's a man who is devoted to his Captain, but it didn't go anywhere. I guess they could have made something of it, but they didn't. However, as we all know in real day to day life, nothing is ever what it seems. While it may have seemed right, either Janeway never acted on it, or Chakotay's feelings didn't go beyond the Student/Mentor stage, but he did find love in the arms of Seven of Nine, and she reciprocated that love. I don't know, I just think they make a cute couple, and I normally don't go for relationships or shipping or whatever it is.

J.

 

I agree with this. Especially requesting people not be called jokes. Though I'll put in a plug for TrekLit for those who want well-written pseudo-canon J/C... for a short time.

What other standards would you have us apply in giving our opinion on whether something appears sleazy to us or not? I wouldn't presume that someone from 12th Century Wales couldn't find much of the 21st Century sleazy without proper education; and even understanding sociologically, they'd probably still find it sleazy. As we don't know what 24th Century standards look like, we're left to speculate from our own.

Asides that, there's no reason to presume 24th Century human standards are any different from 21st Century based on what we see on-screen. Especially those of a man whose identity is closely tied to maintaining centuries-old traditions of a people who hold to pre-spaceflight values systems. Certainly Janeway's faithfulness to Mark would suggest that, and the relationship between Tom and B'Elanna (and that's just keeping it to VGR).

 

I can understand the J/C stuff. She's a woman in a position of authority, he's a man who is devoted to his Captain, but it didn't go anywhere. I guess they could have made something of it, but they didn't. However, as we all know in real day to day life, nothing is ever what it seems. While it may have seemed right, either Janeway never acted on it, or Chakotay's feelings didn't go beyond the Student/Mentor stage, but he did find love in the arms of Seven of Nine, and she reciprocated that love. I don't know, I just think they make a cute couple, and I normally don't go for relationships or shipping or whatever it is.

J.

 

Now that you mention it if Voyager was the only show you watched then there would be nothing to indicate otherwise. However, as a TOS and TNG fan I tend to take the Trek universe as a whole. There were indications in both those shows and Gene Roddenberry had expanded on them that people were more open with their sexuality and consequently I had a tendency to apply those same standards to Voyager.

However, you're right that there's not much on screen in Voyager to indicate that the 24th century is more sexually open than the 21st.

 

I saw the C7 on screen as the beginnings of a dating relationship. Since I see the whole purpose of dating as spending time together to decide whether or not you want to take it to the next level I didn't see the "relationship" they would have after three dates as written in stone. If that's the case then the guy I've recently had three dates with would be my "life love" and I'm thinking - NOT.

Also, I think after everything Seven has been though she needs to play the field a bit before committing to one man before even setting foot off Voyager.