I haven't seen these shows in years. Here are my impressions of what I've seen. Is this the show that people were complaining about back in the 90s? Saying it was a sign of the franchise in decline? What were they watching? Every episode has had more character moments, drama, action....what seems obvious upon viewing this show next to the other Star Trek series is that Voyager is the show that is consistently GOOD! ------------------ So far, the Voyager episodes I've watched include "Caretaker," "Paralax," "Time and Again," "Eye of the Needle," "Ex Post Facto," "Emanations," "State of Flux," "Heroes and Demons," "Faces," "Projections," and "Meld." --------- Favorite moments so far: The doctor basically telling Tuvok that the Vulcan way of life (repressing emotions) is abnormal ("Melds"). Tuvok playing detective in "Melds" and "Ex Post Facto" (and nearly losing his mind in "Melds.") Torres' Klingon and human halves being divided into two separate people ("Faces" Also featured an alien who grafted another Voyager crew member's face over his own). The doctor being told he's the real human and the Voyager crew are the holograms by Lt. Barclay ("Projections"). Janeway in her pajamas pleading with a Romulan to relay messages from Voyager to the Federation ("Eye of the Needle"). The doctor playing the hero of Beowulf and being propositioned by a female warrior who tells him "you know where I sleep" ("Heroes and Demons"). As far as I'm concerned, there's just no comparison. Voyager took some of the more clever situations from Next Generation and Deep Space Nine and put REAL characters into them.
Thank you!!! As I rewatch TNG episodes, I can't believe how many are almost unwatchable. Back when it was first airing, I truly loved it, but compared to Voyager, it sucks. Even the Borg don't look as awesome, but I'll blame that on advancements in CGI and costume departments. Voyager was consistently good, as you say. I don't get why people bash it. It was superior to all the other Treks. All of them. We're not bogged down in the characters' stories. We don't get endless episodes about them. We get a few and then character development occurs in the other episodes that are actually about what happens to them in space, which is what it should be.
We are very much in agreement. TNG wasn't bad for it's era. But Picard seemed to want to lecture everyone into submission and pat his crew on the back for being superior to everyone. And the characters were so restrained. It appeared that Federation officers adopted a philosophy almost as repressed as the Vulcans. The main difference being they could smile and SAY they had emotions, but they had to be platonic (until the last season), and never argue with each other. TOS, DS9, Ent...I guess they all have clever moments. DS9 wasn't the most interesting setting. Enterprise seemed intent on finding dull plots. And after seeing William Shatner as Denny Crane I haven't wanted to go back to TOS. ...But Voyager. Well, I'm preaching to the choir here, but it's just a better drama overall.
...about the character episodes. I know what you mean. In Voyager we get episodes about lone characters. But they aren't just an interesting detour from the business-as-usual stuff. The Doctor's journey in understanding his crewmates is given much more dramatic attention than Data's seemingly passing interest in being human. The Voyager crew is in a situation where they HAVE to try to understand and work together...and they don't all automatically agree like they did in other Trek shows. That is really the very essence of drama if you ask me.
I suspect that the reasons you and I love Voy are the reasons others don't like it. I've come across fans who wanted more character stories and episodes. I personally think that Kes and Seven added quite a bit to that area. They were new. We've already learned about the other species in previous incarnations of Trek. I thought Shatner as Crane was hysterical, but that's my thing. I loved Boston Legal. Yet, it does not make me wish to watch the original series, which I never got into to despite a few tries. Even going back to TNG has left me as less of a fan of it with Voy being the new standard to which I compare all others. Agreed! At some point on TNG I was bored to tears with episodes about Worf and Deanna's mother. Data is a bit more intriguing, but even those episodes cannot live up to the Doctor, but perhaps that is because Data really had nowhere to go whereas the Doctor became quite human. The closest we get with Data is the emotion chip, which was amusing and interesting. It helped make First Contact awesome. But that was as good as we got with Data.
One thing I dug upon rewatching Caretaker: even if it's your first time watching Voyager, you can totally tell which of Janeway's original crew dies if that crewmember is a jerk to Tom Paris. Seriously, Stadi, the XO, and the ship's doctor all thumb their noses to Tom, and they're killed. Janeway and Kim take a liking to Paris, and live. Coincidence? Or does the Caretaker have a thing for Tom?
I have maintained for years that the people who are critical of Voyager haven't seen it in years, don't remember it well, or have only seen certain problematic episodes. When VOY appeared on the scene, there was a terrible negative attitude toward it by the DS9ers (sorry, it's the truth) who managed to denigrate or shout down those of us who were enthusiastic about VOY. One of the things I like best about VOY is the humor! It deals with serious situations, but it also provides some of Trek's better comic moments. If it's been years, or if you are foggy about VOY, watch it again, without a chip on your shoulder, and you will be pleasantly surprised. Are there stinker episodes? Of course, but, for the most part, it is a very good drama and a Trek series to be proud of.
Can we not turn this into yet another DS9/VOY conflict? Not all DS9ers looked down on Voyager when it started; remember, the mid-90s was the height of Trek's popularity, and everyone wanted more.
I'm not trying to do that, but just saying that some of the negative attitude toward VOY came from a rivalry between the two series. That fact is impossible to deny and important for people who weren't here back in the day. But, you're right, not all DS9ers looked down on VOY . . . just the very vocal ones.
I do kind of wish Netflix was offering DS9 for immediate download so I could compare it to the other shows. They did do that awesome Tribble time travel episode.
And for a show about cooperation between species, Trek fans sure do resort to a lot of infighting. First it was Kirk vs. Picard, then DS9 was picked apart. And as the ratings for each successive show dipped it only got worse. That said, this IS the Voyager board and this is the place for me to say: Voyager is BEST!!! (imo)
^^ I guess it is a good thing that fans of the show can be passionate about what they like best. I just think there is room for all the fans and all the series without having to resort to infighting.
They have TOS, TNG, VOY, and ENT. So everything BUT DS9. A person could order the discs by mail I suppose. But it seems a little sad to leave DS9 out of the party.
Hmmm. I might have to do some catching up on DS9 once it is on Netflix. The independent station that carried it back in the 90's turned into NBC about season 5. After that, DS9 was on at odd times in the middle of the night. My VCR and I finally gave up on trying to tape it, and I haven't been able to afford the price of the discs. Good news for me!
I remember before a few years ago, I had been very critical of Seasons 5-7 and decided I was only stopping at Season 4 in terms of a DVD buy. I then decided to get 5-7 for my birthday and was actually surprised on how much I enjoyed a lot of episodes I didn't find all that great before, like Gravity, or Good Shephard. Also, I remember dreading the rewatch of Endgame only to realize that while it's the worst finale of the franchise, there were still parts of it to enjoy. Overall though, I've always liked Voyager, but not as much as TNG or DS9. That didn't diminish the series though, as there is so much to enjoy and the cast did have good chemistry together, especially Picardo and Ryan.
One thing that I didn't like about later seasons of Voyager: the cast really DID have good chemistry together, but at times I felt like the writers were trying to force that chemistry, instead of letting it grow like the wonderful Paris/Torres romance. Case in point, all the Trek-related puns in the first half of Endgame to show the viewer how much they grew as a family. I used to hate Neelix b/c of the same thing, but once the writers let up on him a bit (re: stop trying to make him the cutesy comic relief and let him evolve naturally), I came to appreciate his character more and more. Now when I rewatch Voyager, I look forward to some of his character-centric episodes. Also, I'm cross-referencing these rewatch sessions with TVtropes.org, and I'm finding it to be some great fun. EDIT: case in point: Interesting to note that Community was praised for doing the same thing -- the false clip show where previous adventures are shown but with original footage -- even though Voyager did the same thing over a decade before Community. Of course, both shows did it for different reasons (one's a comedy, of course), but it was a great aversion to the standard by Voyager. Can you imagine if "Shades of Gray" could do that?
I've been trying to watch through Voyager now that it's on Netflix as well, to finish off a franchise (re-)watch that I began months ago. I'm in the first third of season two right now and stopped watching three episodes in a row out of sheer boredom. I've watched about four more episodes fully through after those three, the latest being yesterday, and I'm considering dropping the VGR part of the overall plan.
^^ Season 2 is my least favorite. It has more than its share of odd programs (including Threshold, commonly agreed to be the worst VOY program ever). However, it also has some gems. I liked "Resistance," "Prototype," "Meld," "Deadlock," "Deathwish," and "The Thaw." "Tuvix" is also in Season 2--the one program that inspires the most debate about Janeway's morality, or lack thereof. I encourage you to hang in there. There are some good programs on the horizon.