Voyager again, for the first time

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Voyager' started by NightJim, Feb 26, 2013.

  1. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    You mean those necessary and valuable worlds which the Federation can strip mine the shit out of to fuel their empire?

    The whole Class system of planets to a degree, in part measures the ecological development of a planet, that any world in question could just be a few million years away from becoming class M... And then there's a question of pre-existing life, that bars the Federation from touching any planet if there is a chance that even in 40 billion years that some "here and now" microbes might evolve into Welshmen.

    Obviously there are worlds because of their distance from it's star, and other problems, which will NEVER become class M, which is why they got probably at least 26 classifications of planet types until you get to an absolute penultimate clusterfuck like a class Y planet from Voy: Demon.

    Have you ever wondered what a Class N planet is like?

    What happens to the soufflé if you leave it in the oven too long?
     
  2. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    What class was Ceti Alpha V after the big disaster knocked it out of M?

    The Federation is stupid if they are all hands off of planets with some monkeys or microbes on them in case they evolve into sentience. No one else is going to be so prissy about it, the Klingons will just show up and strip mine it or whatever. If they filled these planets up with a bunch of holograms they would have some claim on them with minimal investment. Then once the holograms have turned the monkey planets into paradises there could be a mysterious accident with the holo projectors, or better yet a virus.

    If all the EMH drones we saw in the mine were suddenly liberated, all with mobile emitters how long would it take them to develop into distinct people? As in, not immediately recognizable as the Doctor's personality. Sure they might branch off into different interests and pursuits but I bet even if they all changed their appearance five minutes of talking to one of them would have VOY's crew knowing they were EMH Mark 1's.
     
  3. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    From TNG Homesoil

    It's a cleverly veiled comment on abortion.

    The life expectancy of the Federation sometimes seems to be measure in months. I'm assuming that these worlds they decline on using or terraforming because they contain life or the potential of life are "inside" Federation borders, and the mighty star empire just goes around these bumpkin worlds, believing the 40 million years after the fall of the Federation, that they could make something of themselves.

    Interesting.

    After TNG The Chase, could the Federation feel the need to tattoo messages to future species in the future onto their fish and or monkey ancestor DNA as a message in a bottle to explain to tomorrow how the galaxy was so long ago?
     
  4. NightJim

    NightJim Captain Captain

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    Ex Post Facto

    aka Voyager does Noir murder story, complete with femme fatale and some espionage. How could I not like it? It's by no means a standout amazing episode, but it had all the right moves to thoroughly entertain me.

    Also the ship to ship combat was fun with Chakotay using an 'old' trick, Janeway being unimpressed but it working anyway because "the old tricks are new again".

    I also really liked Tuvok invterviewing the widow, makes an incredible burn on her that actually got me laughing. "It is rare to encounter someone who is as dispassionate as we are."

    One thing this episode did solidify for me was my problem with Away Teams. Although it makes sense in this instance, in nearly every instance so far Janeway has led them, which we know is a contradiction to Starfleet regs. Looking back at what little I can remember, and the general animosity toward Chakotay, maybe him reinforcing the point of the First Officer leading the Away Teams might have helped the character.
     
  5. NightJim

    NightJim Captain Captain

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    Emanations

    Pretty meh episode for me. Basically boils down to 'don't let science blind you to other possibilities regarding an afterlife'. I'm not sure why the episode didn't really sit with me, maybe it was Harry, or the subject matter is something I've long made up my mind on but just didn't do much for me.

    Also there's some rather terrible dialogue in a few places. In the same conversation a few of the Vhnori yo-yo between 'we don't transcend?' to 'you're from the other side!'. Especially the high priest/scientist, who does about two 180s in his conversation when he and Kim have their first proper chat about it.

    On the flip side, that Bajoran that's been hanging around since the start has a name. I hadn't realised how much build up there was to Seska. I remember the pay-off (it was one of my best mates favourite thing about season 1 of Voyager when it first aired) but to see this much scene setting is very cool.

    Addendum: Probably going to take a few days off from Voyager. I've got a bunch of other shows I need to catch up on, and while I read New Frontier: Martyr it seems like a perfect spot to take a break.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2013
  6. NightJim

    NightJim Captain Captain

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    Well that didn't take very long. I burned through Martyr in three days, and didn't get chance to watch the other shows, but Voyager was calling out to me to be watched.

    So here's Prime Factors

    It started on a pretty boring level, but when they got round to introducing the space-folding transporter, and the Sikarian's unwillingness to share things started to look up. It's the Prime Directive in reverse. A rather nice idea, one that's then completely laid out.

    But the way the episode unfolds pays that blatancy off. See the crew torn between trying to figure out the technology and respecting the Sikarian version of the Prime Directive is fascinating, along with the further developments of Seska, who really steps into the spotlight here, as well as the return of the Carey who was in the running for Chief Engineer. Having all these minor characters repeatedly pop up really sells the small crew. Apart from O'Brien and Morn I never really noticed this on previous Trek. Admittedly that could just be me being too young or the weekly instalments making me miss the subtler details, but I really like it.
     
  7. NightJim

    NightJim Captain Captain

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    State of Flux

    aka The Seska Payoff.

    It's weird that in modern TV this would probably be the end of season finale, the big reveal that the crew were being betrayed. However, I really liked it. Not much more to say than that. Great episode.
     
  8. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I don't mean to rain on your parade, but unfortunately you are imagining all that.

    The producers didn't decide that Seska was a Cardassian until this episode which means no one told Martha to be anything other than a Bajoran who happens to be a dick up to this point... Just like the folkes across the lot didn't tell Alex Siddig that he was playing a Founder of the Dominion for 1/4 of a season.

    :(
     
  9. NightJim

    NightJim Captain Captain

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    Really? Because I just read on Memory Alpha that this episode was conceived first then pushed further back so they could build the character up for the emotional pay off.
     
  10. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    I am cracking up about Siddig, I never knew that.. I'd love to know what his reaction to this news was.

    I think with Seska they made her such a conniving Bajoran that she already fit the Cardassian template. But I'm interested to know when Hackett found out.
     
  11. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    The problem with this business is that the truth keeps changing.

    I knew that Martha didn't know, which to a point memory alpha supports. It just seems logical that if the production staff knew, then they should have told her sooner rather than later to help with her method, but they didn't trust her as an actress. Jeri kept the delightful Miss Hackett in the dark for at least 2 of her 5 season one appearances, possibly 3 and then outed her secret in the fifth.

    I'm not sure if it's better or worse that the Seska character wasn't in the original scripts for Parallax", "Phage", "Emanations" or "Prime Factors" and that her lines if they existed were contributed to walkons or maybe Carey... SHE STOLE ALL OF CAREY'S LINES! THAT BITCH! (Yes Carey and Chakotay used to have sex which is how he was a Maquis spy on Voyager who was never revealed... If Joe was revealed as a Maquis spy, would they make him trade in his pips for a provisional rank badge with the rest of the rebel scum? Y'know if most of the crew was, as Cal Hudson suggested, Maquis sympathizers, it's no wonder they all integrated so quickly and organically.)but her character was added to these probably mostly finished scripts after someone had sold the producers State of Flux. The Producers didn't move things around, what they did was far more intrusive, Jeri Taylor and Michael Biller retroactively edited the space time continuum like wanton gods.

    Which is so cool and Trek you would think they should be more proud of it?

    Time travel.

    Sweet.
     
  12. NightJim

    NightJim Captain Captain

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    haha somewhere in there you lost me. But damn them for messing with the time stream!

    As for the stealing of lines, if it was just a walk on then much better. I like when you get more identifiable minor crew members, something StarGate was pretty good at, and of course the pay off here, even if the showrunners kept everyone out the loop.

    Stealing lines is not quite as good, but since it helps the pay off I think it's cool.
     
  13. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    From Memory Alpha like Jim said...

    http://en.memory-alpha.org/wiki/State_of_Flux_(episode)
     
  14. NightJim

    NightJim Captain Captain

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    Yeah, that ex-lovers angle really comes out of nowhere. That bit was certainly a last minute addition. Like Hackett says, knowing that before hand may have changed a scene or two in previous episodes.
     
  15. NightJim

    NightJim Captain Captain

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    Heroes and Demons

    Oh joy, a holodeck episode. And some Chakotay faith babble. Not a great start.

    But then- The Doctor gets an away mission. A big milestone for the character, some great development for him, and some fantastic acting by Picardo. It turns what was starting to sound a bit tired into quite a fun episode.

    I have no idea what is going on with Janeway's hair. I saw an interview where she said the producers kept trying different things, and she has had a fair few styles, but this one is ridiculous. Thank God she convinced them to stop it in season 2.
     
  16. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    Mulgrew has wigs and hair extensions, I've always wondered about Janeway.

    The problem with the Doctor in this episode is that the character is so over joyed that in the process he loses his grumpy edge and becomes a completely nice guy... This is a marathon not a sprint, what are you going to do for the next 6 years if the Doctor is sunshine rainbows and kittens? Now it's just a question of do these fixes to his personality "take" or is the dreaded reset button going to take effect between episodes and he'll be all crotchety next week making everything that happened here irrelevant?
     
  17. teacake

    teacake Fleet Admiral Admiral

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    This episode is full of lameass stuff that should make me dislike it but I have a huge soft spot for it. Picardo brings it home.
     
  18. Captain Kathryn

    Captain Kathryn Commodore Commodore

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    Haaaa I love Voyager, but this is one of my least favorite episodes, at least in the beginning. When I saw you wrote "Chakotay faith babble", it made me laugh because EVERY TIME he has one of "those moments", they play that terrible "Native American" sounding music haha. EVERY TIME.

    The episode had me off on a bad note because I was an English major and we had to read Beowulf like 10 times. Once in Old English...ughhhh.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2013
  19. Jeri

    Jeri Vice Admiral Admiral

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    We read Das Lied der Niebelungen in German Literature; try that one sometime, LOL. But I love "Heroes and Demons..." That chick is fabulous.
     
  20. NightJim

    NightJim Captain Captain

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    That's the thing about this episode, it should be one you hate, but due to his acting you come out loving it.

    Like Guy said, maybe it was too much at once. But for someone who had been permanently locked in sickbay his immense joy at getting out there and enjoying it makes perfect sense. But you could have had him still grumpy in Sickbay, because as far as duties go he's stuck there unless something similar happens to the holodeck (he should get a transfer to the Enterprise when they get back)