Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager At the same time she *was* a part of the collective... And thus shared the responsibility for the decisions made by the collective. They are one mind. Because if no drone has any responsibility, where exactly does the responsibility lay? If you free drone after drone, declaring them not guilty, does the last drone get all the blame?
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager Yeah.. But that is the concept that ruined the Borg for me, and many others. I suppose it could be argued that the queen is just a drone like others - just one that speaks for the collective. Because the idea that the Borg are just zombies ruled by the iron fist of a single individual... Well that just is the complete reversal of the original Borg concept.
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager How is that possible with the emotional dampener? Not that I think the dampener is a great idea. In fact it's a stupid idea but stupid or not it's still there...
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager Another episode where the original idea sounds better than what we ended up with.
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager Since they didn't even *mention* the emotional dampener until mid-season 7, it's pretty obvious that the writers hadn't considered it. But Seven certainly talks to Neelix about the issue of guilt.
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager The Collective is a force of nature. Where does the responsibility lay for a devastating tornado or hurricane? Or a swarm of bees attacking a person? The Hive is just following their imperatives to acquire technology and improve races. Their victims may blame individual drones or view the Borg as being evil but at the end of the day there is no malice or pride guiding what they do.
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager True. However, is she discussing it with him because it's something she believes she's feeling because she should be feeling or is she actually feeling it? No biggie. The whole dampener device makes discussing Seven's emotional state (since she supposedly didn't have one until the thing was removed) a moot point.
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager Forgive me that I take the discussions occuring in episodes seriously. Seven said her guilt was real. Tis good enough for me. She also experienced grief, anger, and pride, not to mention her feelings towards One. Are those also "moot points"? Does it mean they can't be discussed?
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager Anything can be discussed. I'm just saying given the reveal of the dampening device I wonder just how strongly she felt those emotions. It rather puts a dark spin on Seven's years on Voyager: friendship, loyalty, trust, etc - just how much were they actually there?
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager ^ Or the dampener--being part of her cortical node--could have come with Icheb's, since she didn't have her original any more.
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager Perhaps but you would think Icheb's love for Seven and his willingness to perhaps sacrifice his life for hers would have activated it.
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager I'm afraid I don't understand you... Icheb gave Seven a cortical node--which had to have a dampener, since it caused her problems later. Yet, you accept that Icheb loved. You don't accept that Seven did. I'm confused.
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager My point was that IF Icheb had the dampener it would have kicked in when Seven was dying. To me the fact that it didn't means she probably had the dampener the entire time - not him.
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager The dampener was part of the cortical node--the Doc said that the technology was built into it. Seven's original cortical node was removed and replaced with Icheb's.
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager ^ Well unfortunately the site I normally rely on to check stuff like that is having some issues so if you have the dialogue then let's have it.
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager From Human Error: The Doc quite clearly states that the tech is built into the node. And since the node that Seven has came from Icheb...
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager Okay then! Now here's what doesn't make sense. How can someone be freed from the collective, supposedly start to feel emotions, have those new emotions dampened then not notice what the heck was going on?
Re: A Hater Revisits Voyager Because the writers chose to do whatever they wanted when they needed a plot point. I know you defend Voyager's consistency, but this is season 7, remember? And IMO, Voyager wasn't all that consistent *before* season 7.