Is 'Woman In Cafeteria' Janice Rand, or not?

Discussion in 'Star Trek Movies I-X' started by Lance, Sep 12, 2013.

  1. R. Star

    R. Star Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2012
    Location:
    Shangri-La
    I never noticed the misnaming in the credits and just always assumed it was Rand. Could it be a case of not wanting to pay royalties like with Lacarno/Paris?
     
  2. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Location:
    New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
    No.

    No royalties are owed to a writer for this character, since Rand dates back to the Writers' Bible of TOS. The royalty rule is more for a one-off guest character in an episode written by an outside writer, who gets turned into a recurring character in other writers' scripts, ie. T'Pau, Locarno, etc.

    And it's not a "misnaming". It is a cameo and a kind of in-joke. As I said, the script itself doesn't specify that it's Rand. Not listing the character's name is part of the in-joke. It was a directorial choice to use GLW as Rand. The scriptwriter had no idea the director would add an existing TOS character to the scene. He could have used an extra, but he used GLW.

    Some cameos in movies go uncredited, even though the actor has lines eg. Whoopi Goldberg in "Generations" and "Nemesis", and Noel Neill and Kirk Allyn as Lois Lane's parents in "Superman: The Movie" (dialogue restored for TV premiere).
     
    somebuddyX likes this.
  3. Greg Cox

    Greg Cox Admiral Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 12, 2004
    Location:
    Lancaster, PA
    I always assumed it was Rand, because the scene works better emotionally that way.

    That bit isn't about her uniform and rank. It's about: "Hey, look, it's Janice--from the old show--and she's getting all choked up about what happened to the Enterprise. What a nice moment!"

    I don't think you're supposed to be paying attention to her insignia at that moment. :)
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2013
  4. Praetor

    Praetor Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2004
    Location:
    The fine line between continuity and fanwank.
    Agreed.
     
  5. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Location:
    Bristol, United Kingdom
    It was clearly meant to be Janice in STIII they just ret-conned her rank. They did the same to O'Brien. I can live with it.

    And glam make-up or not, Grace looked good in TMP IMO. Too much glam make-up on an older woman doesn't look as good to me. In Basic Instinct 2 Sharon Stone was caked in so much make-up it looked a bit odd. Shortly after I saw her talking with Dev Patel on a red carpet beaming away, wrinkles and all and she is still incredibly beautiful without the make-up.
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2013
  6. Maurice

    Maurice Snagglepussed Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2005
    Location:
    Real Gone
    Sorry to be a skeptic, but how would anyone know what Persis had in her contract? Actors aren't usually forthcoming about the details of their deals.
     
  7. austen_pierce

    austen_pierce Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2013
    Location:
    Virginia Beach, VA
    The OP question is what do we think. Based on what I've read here and my own opinions, it seems the answer is a clear yes. It's Rand.
     
  8. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Location:
    New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
    Grace Lee Whitney told me in person that, when she complained that the studio stills of Majel and Persis had been photo retouched, she was told that Majel pulled rank (ie. as the boss's wife), and that Persis actually had it in her contract that she had control over her images.

    Oh, and sorry to necro a thread. Just noticed the date.
     
  9. Jayson1

    Jayson1 Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 21, 2017
    It never occuried to me that anyone would think she wasn't Rand. Jason
     
    Lance, Pauln6 and Kor like this.
  10. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Location:
    Bristol, United Kingdom
    Her rank is over the place. If it hadn't been for STIV putting her in a non com uniform, there would be no doubt that it was her. I think she was Starfleet Intelligence operative disguised as an officer to bring down Beckwith's drug ring.
     
    Lance and David cgc like this.
  11. Lord Garth

    Lord Garth Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 7, 2011
    Location:
    Aug 10, 1999
    I always took her as being Rand. If anything, I'd think of her appearance in TVH as being someone else. The shot we get of her in TSFS is a lot more dramatic and to the forefront.
     
    Lance likes this.
  12. BillJ

    BillJ The King of Kings Premium Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2001
    Location:
    America, Fuck Yeah!!!
    If one wants it to be Rand, then it's Rand. If one doesn't want it to be Rand, then it isn't.

    Nothing in the film says one way or the other.
     
    Lance, JonnyQuest037 and Smellmet like this.
  13. Kor

    Kor Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2001
    Location:
    My mansion on Qo'noS
    I always assumed the character to be Rand, as her reaction to the damaged Enterprise shows that she has some kind of relationship with the ship. The non-com uniform in the next movie does throw things off, though.

    Kor
     
    Lance and Smellmet like this.
  14. Smellmet

    Smellmet Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2013
    Location:
    The Northern Shires of England.
    As far as I'm concerned it's her. It's the same actress FFS. Why would it be anyone else? Why would the film go to the effort of focusing on her, then her give this expression of 'bloody hell Jim's been at it again and fucked the ship big time this time' - if she truly was just some random then neither of these things would have occurred.
     
    Lance likes this.
  15. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Location:
    Verona, New Jersey, USA
    I'm inclined to think not. Rand's rise though the ranks is tough enough to figure out just from her canonical appearances; from Yeoman to Transporter Chief to Chief Petty Officer to somehow Lt. JG and Lt. Commander at the same time (where she also mentions that it took her three years to make Ensign). If she's also a Commander in STIII but somehow goes back to being a noncom by the very next movie, forget it.
     
    Shamrock Holmes and Lance like this.
  16. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    A type 13 planet in it's final stage
    If we rate the costuming department above all else, Valaris and Miles O'Brien are non-canon. And I'm pretty sure some other Next Gen, Voyager and DS9 characters never wore their correct rank insignia either.
     
  17. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Location:
    Bristol, United Kingdom
    I was just about to say this. Rand's appearances are contradictory because nobody cared about her backstory. But just because it's onscreen at the end of TMP, doesn't mean McCoy transfers to science and Spock to medical.
     
  18. JonnyQuest037

    JonnyQuest037 Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Feb 6, 2005
    Location:
    Verona, New Jersey, USA
    Those characters had dialogue and were identified by name. In the STIII Spacedock scene, the costuming is all we have to go on.
     
  19. F. King Daniel

    F. King Daniel Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2008
    Location:
    A type 13 planet in it's final stage
    I'd say the classic Trek actress brought back in what were essentially a series of reunion specials would be the primary thing...
     
  20. Amasov

    Amasov Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 24, 2001
    For the longest time it never even occurred to me that it was Rand and had always wondered who that lady was and why she was so prominent in that particular scene. It wasn't until, I believe, the text commentary on the SE DVD from Okuda that pointed out it was Grace-Lee Whitney.

    I think the red hair was throwing me off. And when I see it now, it's just so obviously her.

    [​IMG]