What about the Federation Science Station on The Guardian's Planet?

Discussion in 'Star Trek: Deep Space Nine' started by Guy Gardener, Dec 27, 2011.

  1. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    The Federation would have to be idiots not to put a base there.

    To stop idiots using the Guardian and to remain protected when other idiots pervert time, so that they can put right that which once went wrong and maintain the intgrity of the federation.

    So in Future Tense, that's the first place O'Brien and Kira should have contacted or tried to contact. Actually, anyone within 300 feet of the Orb of time is probably protected as well, so that Bugger should be placed slap in the middle of the seat of Bajoran power (Even though the Klingons had it at that point.)... But whosoever is in charge of the federation base on the Guardians planet (TOS From City on the Edge of Forever) would have to be prepared and trained to be a back up and emergency replacement Government for the Federation after it falls from a temporal apocalypse, every time it falls from a temporal apocalypse.

    Just saying.
     
  2. Sci

    Sci Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2002
    Location:
    Montgomery County, State of Maryland
    Re: What about the Federation Science Station on The Guardian's Planet

    For whatever it's worth, the novel Crucible: Provinence of Shadows establishes that the final voyage of the U.S.S. Enterprise's five-year mission saw Captain Kirk and crew defending the Federation outpost at the Guardian of Forever's world from a Klingon attack fleet. The Enterprise defeated the Klingon fleet, but at the cost of one of the Klingon ships slamming into the Guardian's base itself, vaporizing it and most of the planet. The Enterprise itself was badly damaged, nearly crippled, and this led directly to its TMP-era refit.

    I assume you're referring to "Past Tense, Parts I & II," which features O'Brien and Kira attempting to rescue Sisko, Bashir, and Dax from the 2030s.

    At the point of "Past Tense" (mid-2371), the Orb of Time was in the possession of the Cardassian Union. And we don't know that being near the Orb of Time would protect anyone from changes in history.
     
  3. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Re: What about the Federation Science Station on The Guardian's Planet

    The Universe "changed" around the Defiant when Del Varna... NO. Arne Darvin (Dyslexic much?) used the orb to travel back in time. Of Course, the Prophets could have have been monitoring the situation and "saved" the Defiant, or it could have been Sisko's latent heridity kicking in... But at first glace there's always the eye of the storm to consider that the orb itself probaly doesn't want to be "altered" by time.

    The Fan Film in Harms Way has an archeological team finding a much larger Guardian which Kirk (Well, Sulu.) flew the Enterprise through.
     
  4. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Location:
    New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
    Re: What about the Federation Science Station on The Guardian's Planet

    IIRC "Yesteryear" (TAS) correctly, and elaboration from Alan Dean Foster in the novelization, there was an historians' outpost there. Loom Aleek-Om the Aurelian was posted there.
     
  5. Nerys Myk

    Nerys Myk A Spock and a smile Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 4, 2001
    Location:
    AI Generated Madness
    Re: What about the Federation Science Station on The Guardian's Planet

    Add it to the list of things the 24th Century forgot they had, along with Androids.
     
  6. Farrens

    Farrens Lieutenant Commander Red Shirt

    Joined:
    Aug 11, 2009
    Re: What about the Federation Science Station on The Guardian's Planet

    Who needs the Guardian anyway, just sling shot around the nearest sun! Yet another concept (along with the guardian and orb) that should not have been introduced. A reliable form of time travel destroys conventional story telling by removing drama. Or makes stories overly complex by trying to account for it.
     
  7. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Re: What about the Federation Science Station on The Guardian's Planet

    Every time the universe is changed by some bugger slingshotting around a sun, whosoever is camped on the Guardians world remains unaffected.

    Sometimes the Federation falls, and sometimes there's no noticeable change.

    of course who ever is camped down there has to decide if some new empires are too bountiful to chance reversing, and then, can that new Federation really trust the refugees holding the Guardians World who claim enough moral superiority to not at the moment feel like destroying the Federation. So really it's an act of self to defence to re prioritize their original timeline as the most probable to exist.
     
  8. Sci

    Sci Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2002
    Location:
    Montgomery County, State of Maryland
    Re: What about the Federation Science Station on The Guardian's Planet

    No, it didn't. That was just the entire Defiant itself being sent back through time.
     
  9. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Re: What about the Federation Science Station on The Guardian's Planet

    The Defiant wasn't jaunting about in time. O'Brien and Kira were being transported back and forth through time from the present where the defiant stayed put.

    But because of a relative connection between what Sisko was doing and O'Brien was doing, the "present" didn't change until hours later for O'Brien when "respectively" hours after his arrival, Sisko accidentally aided in the murder of Gabriel Bell, a man who had a destiny interrupted.

     
  10. Sci

    Sci Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2002
    Location:
    Montgomery County, State of Maryland
    Re: What about the Federation Science Station on The Guardian's Planet

    Dude, you're thinking of "Past Tense." "Past Tense" didn't feature the Orb of Time, at all. The time travel in that episode was caused by random technobabble particle winds passing through the solar system and messing up the Defiant's transporter beam. The Orb of Time didn't appear until two seasons later, in "Trials and Tribble-ations," when it sent the entire Defiant back in time to the 2260s.
     
  11. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Re: What about the Federation Science Station on The Guardian's Planet

    I was saying that the orb of time existed, not that it was involved in past tense.

    I mistakenly thought it was generating a protective field on Klingon because I'm an idot, but it was actually generating a protective field on Cardassia.

    But by season 5, the Bajoran Government/Clergy would have had the orb of time and you'd have to wonder if they take advantage of it to defend against the pressure of foreign timelines coming to dominance, just like the Federation would use the Guardian, or might the Bajorans prefer ignorance and oblivion like Janeway decided for herself at the Conclusion of Year of Hell.

    Temporal panic rooms if you will.
     
  12. EyalM

    EyalM Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Jun 14, 2007
    Location:
    Haifa
    Re: What about the Federation Science Station on The Guardian's Planet

    There is nothing to suggest that the orb of time could protect anyone in its vicinity from temporal shifts. The defiant in that episode traveled back in time, and if there is one consistent thing in the way time travel is portrayed in Trek, is that a traveler to the past is protected from any change he\she may do to his future\past (contrary to, say, the way it works in back to the future).
     
  13. Gotham Central

    Gotham Central Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    May 15, 2001
    Location:
    Chicago, IL
    Re: What about the Federation Science Station on The Guardian's Planet

    FYI, for anyone interested, the Star Trek Novel, DTI: Watching the Clock explains a lot of these questions. It touches on the Orb of Time and why no one uses either The Guardian nor the slingshot effect.
     
  14. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Re: What about the Federation Science Station on The Guardian's Planet

    Oh my!

    Well, that's entirely a horse of a different colour.
     
  15. MacLeod

    MacLeod Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Mar 8, 2001
    Location:
    Great Britain
    Re: What about the Federation Science Station on The Guardian's Planet

    If I were the CnC of Starfleet, I would make sure that the Guradian planet was need to know. And in my view a Chief of Operations of a starbase doesn't need to know.
     
  16. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2003
    Re: What about the Federation Science Station on The Guardian's Planet

    Yup. But whether Starfleet top brass could keep the Guardian as an ace in the uniform sleeve...

    I don't think the Guardian really is suited for that. It's a pretty strong-headed machine, unlikely to do anybody else's bidding. If Starfleet wanted to go to the past to fix things, the Guardian would probably veto most of the fixes, considering other outcomes preferable. It did agree to restore the Federation once McCoy accidentally erased it, but that doesn't mean it would agree to changing things that weren't originally changed by Guardian action.

    It's nice of the Guardian that it allows the research of "Yesteryear" to go on. Would Starfleet be able to exploit the "time-shelter" around the device? Again, we don't know if it shelters against anything else besides changes introduced by the device itself...

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  17. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Re: What about the Federation Science Station on The Guardian's Planet

    The Guardian is rending time and space outside the eye of the storm it lives in.

    All that distortion could be very effective as a temporal firewall, or it might not be. However the Guardian doesn't "Change" space time on it's planet. It just facilitates travel away to where a point of divergence will manifest offworld. So really that means that all edition of time, which the Guardian is responsible for, is an outward/external force moving towards the Guardian rather than emanating out/away form it.

    However, I think the Guardian is as easy as a 2 dollar whore.

    "Many such journeys are possible. Let me be your gateway."
     
  18. Therin of Andor

    Therin of Andor Admiral Moderator

    Joined:
    Jun 30, 2004
    Location:
    New Therin Park, Andor (via Australia)
    Re: What about the Federation Science Station on The Guardian's Planet

    Who said it was reliable or easy to do?
     
  19. Guy Gardener

    Guy Gardener Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 15, 2000
    Location:
    In the lap of squalor I assure you.
    Re: What about the Federation Science Station on The Guardian's Planet

    The Guardian.

    But he's a real wanker., I wouldn't trust him.
     
  20. Pavonis

    Pavonis Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2001
    Re: What about the Federation Science Station on The Guardian's Planet

    What kind of guardian lets anyone just wander through and mess with the very thing it's supposed to be guarding? Methinks the Guardian was off its rocker.