Klingon Fleets?

Discussion in 'General Trek Discussion' started by SilentP, Aug 18, 2009.

  1. SilentP

    SilentP Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    May 21, 2009
    Location:
    is in a very lonely Corner of the Circle
    Something that started going around in my mind after watching the intro for Star Trek: Armada on Youtube (the Toral vs Martok fleets battle) made me wonder about how the Klingon military ships are owned/controlled.

    We know that there is a central non-House aligned military within the Klingon Empire (the IDF I think), and IIRC there are vessels that are owned by Houses, mainly the more powerful ones, so here are my points of curiousity:

    - In times of war against other nations, are the House vessels subsumed into the IDF completely without needing permission, or do Houses have to submit their vessels voluntarily?

    - Even if the Houses do submit their vessels to a war effort, would they retain complete autonomy about what actions the ship perform, or do they have to submit to the central command of the IDF?

    - In cases of inter-House wars or Civil Wars, how does the IDF figure into such conflicts?

    Any thoughts would be welcome, and additional points of curiousity would also be interesting :)
     
  2. Deks

    Deks Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 16, 2003
    The overall actions of Klingon ships belonging to different houses can reflect in one way or the other to outside powers.
    They have a centralized governemnt apparently, but the amount of ships working for that government is ascertained how loyal each house is to the government in question.

    We've seen two opposing houses fighting each other in TNG.
    The Klingon empire as a whole can for example still denounce it's connections to any house that does something 'damaging' to external powers ... such as the Federation (if they want to retain good relations).
    So one particular house is to blame in such a case and the government simply cuts it's ties (offocially) to it if it sees it's actions were damaging to the empire overall.
    Otherwise, I do think they conform to the central government for the most part but each house retains autonomy in what it'd ships do as long as it's not damaging to the Empire.
     
  3. Tanagra

    Tanagra Ensign Newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2009
    I always thought of it as similar to medieval systems, where there is no standing army but the nobles contribute themselves and their troops to collectively create a royal army for the monarch in times of war.
     
  4. mirandafave

    mirandafave Fleet Captain Fleet Captain

    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2008
    That fits rather well with the Klingon culture and why traditionally honour was so esteemed. If a a warrior or house was more honourable they might attract more support for their House and its causes.
     
  5. Tanagra

    Tanagra Ensign Newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2009
    Yeah and again ties into the medieval concept... nobles would be trying to get in the monarch's good books (unless they opposed them for whatever reason) just because it ultimately made them more powerful. Klingons want their House to be regarded highly by the High Council, and surely if the Empire was in a state of war then it would be considered extremely dishonourable to not contribute your House's forces to the KDF.
     
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2009
  6. C.E. Evans

    C.E. Evans Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Nov 22, 2001
    Location:
    Ferguson, Missouri, USA
    And there also has to be sizeable number of Klingon ships dedicated to maintaining control over the individual worlds, systems, and entire sectors that have been presumably annexed (either by force or by coercion) into the Empire as well...
     
  7. EmperorTiberius

    EmperorTiberius Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2009
    I think so too. The IDF is made up of houses whose members man the ships and they're responsible for certain areas of the Empire. They might own some ships, others might be "rented" from the govt.

    Personally, I like the idea of space vikings/medieval Japanese/mongols. It's something different. It worked very well for the SFC3 game.
     
  8. MeanJoePhaser

    MeanJoePhaser Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2003
    Location:
    Missile Command
    So in TNG/DS9/VOY era are the really crappy Houses the ones still fielding TMP-era D-7's?

    "House of Kl'Rarrt got another Attack Cruiser...and here were are, crawling through space at warp 7 in a 200 year old rustbucket like some pa'taks."
     
  9. SilentP

    SilentP Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    May 21, 2009
    Location:
    is in a very lonely Corner of the Circle
    I could easily imagine the Houses with lesser reknown having only the wealth to afford the old D-7s and to maintain, especially knowing the Klingon's penchant for keeping old designs running for decades, if not centuries. More powerful Houses may keep old ones that earned them much honour, so keep them around as 'heirlooms.'
     
  10. captcalhoun

    captcalhoun Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2005
    Location:
    everywhere
    it's the KDF. the IDF is Israel's Defence Force...
     
  11. SilentP

    SilentP Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    May 21, 2009
    Location:
    is in a very lonely Corner of the Circle
    I'm trying to remember what Klingon agency using 'I', which presumably stands for Imperial...
     
  12. CommodoreKong

    CommodoreKong Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2004
    Location:
    Amana, Iowa
    On a somewhat releated note, I hope that when we get another TV series the various alien fleets have a few more ship designs then they do in TNG/DS9.

    I understand that they were limited by the number of models they could build and 2-3 was usually enough (or just 1 for the Romulans :rolleyes:) and I'm not expecting as many ships as Starfleet has, but maybe 2-3 new ship designs (along with the old ones) per race would be nice.
     
  13. Tanagra

    Tanagra Ensign Newbie

    Joined:
    Jul 14, 2009
    :lol: *edits*
     
  14. Myasishchev

    Myasishchev Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2009
    Location:
    America after the rain
    I really liked the episode where the Klingons derailed the Romulans' antimatter power program with a unilateral, surgical strike on the experimental reactor, which earned the ire of Jean-Luc Picard for some reason.

    I think the notion that the Klingons maintain essentially a feudal-era military organization despite the technology to create perhaps the second most powerful space fleet in Alpha Quadrant is an interesting one, to be sure, and explains the chronic instability in the Klingon Empire.

    It occurs to me that it's probably similar to the organization in the Ferengi Alliance, which in all likelihood also maintains privately-held military forces, albeit ones controlled by publically-traded PMCs instead of a hereditary nobility.
     
  15. SilentP

    SilentP Commodore Commodore

    Joined:
    May 21, 2009
    Location:
    is in a very lonely Corner of the Circle
    It certainly paints a picture that it takes a fair bit of political saavy on the part of any ruling Chancellor to get a unified response to go to arms (or not to go to arms, as the case may be) in different scenarios, the Klingon penchant for warmongering aside. Shows that the Klingons aren't as one-dimensional as some people on the board make them out to be.
     
  16. Pauln6

    Pauln6 Rear Admiral Rear Admiral

    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2009
    Location:
    Bristol, United Kingdom
    What I find it hard to understand is why we never see any allied races, ships, or mixed crews. If it really is an Empire there must be other planets under Klingon 'supervision' and/or control - Kirk as much as says so to the Organians. Where are all the allies and colaborators of the Empire?

    Same question for the Romulan 'Empire' although we do know about the Remans at least.
     
  17. EmperorTiberius

    EmperorTiberius Captain Captain

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2009
    Which episode is that? I don't think I've ever seen that

    We know they have other races under control, but they don't let them fight. There must be plenty of Klingons around, and Romulans distrust other crews.
     
  18. MeanJoePhaser

    MeanJoePhaser Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2003
    Location:
    Missile Command
    It's possible the Klingons gave up most occupied worlds under some treaty with the Federation, and the remaining are colonies largely populated by Klingons or "protectorate" worlds of scientifically undeveloped races.

    In terms of letting "aliens" serve with their military, both races seem racist, even...or maybe, especially the Klingons. The Klingons believing themselves superiour to all and the Romulans more paranoid/suspicious.
     
  19. Timo

    Timo Fleet Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2003
    It's what the other IDF did, back in the exciting 1980s. Although I'm not sure this incident ever had a Picard-analogue...

    One'd expect the Empire to recapture said worlds the first thing after going belligerent again. It must have been a great platform for any Chancellor-hopeful - and if Gowron failed to deliver on his campaign promises in this respect, I don't see how he could have remained in power for long...

    Personally, I think the Feds weren't powerful enough to dictate terms on the Klingons back when the Khitomer Accords were first signed. As late as TNG S1, our heroes seem quite frightened of the Klingons as a species or a culture, and as late as TNG S6, we learn that the Klingons kept raiding UFP installations well into the mid-24th century. I doubt these fearsome barbarians would have given up a single conquered world just because the UFP asked.

    Timo Saloniemi
     
  20. Mysterion

    Mysterion Vice Admiral Admiral

    Joined:
    Jun 28, 2001
    Location:
    Suburban Mos Eisley
    Interesting point. It would seem, taking this into account, that the Khitomer Accords were something of a "face saving" maneuver for both sides. The Klingons get aid in rebuilding Q'onos, the Feds get some of the heat taken off of Starfleet so they can go off and explore stuff. Most everybody is mostly happy.