View Single Post
Old July 3 2014, 07:19 AM   #421
xavier
Lieutenant Commander
 
Re: Homosexual Rights in the Star Trek Universe

borgboy wrote: View Post
xavier wrote: View Post
Maurice wrote: View Post
Small rant.

"Some humans harbor a strong prejudice against Vulcans." noun

"The treaty is likely to prejudice the planet's status." verb

"But not all us humans are so prejudiced." adjective

Also...

"Homosexuality" and "Christianity" cannot have rights, as they are things.

"Homosexuals" and "Christians" may, because they are people.

Finally,


Jews are not a race, so do not fall under such a neat umbrella.

When I say race, I also mean nationality and ethnicity. I don't think it is accurate to compare the horrors that a race or a nationality faced in the world to the human sexuality or to rights based on people's sexuality. it is completely two different things and therefore can not be compared.

I find it interesting that many African Americans have said in a majority that the black civil rights can not be compared to homosexual rights. most African American support the definition of marriage which is a union between a man and a woman and this same African Americans largely support interracial marriage by 88% but then again, interracial marriage never redefined marriage and many African american are aware of this.

What interracial marriage did was strike down racism that interfered and prohibited the definition of marriage and this violated the rights of people who were in interracial relationships that wanted to get married.

The rights of interracial marriage never changed the definition of marriage by making it a union of two people. interracial marriage was still a man and a woman in holy matrimony as husband and wife and this therefore met the definition of marriage.

homosexual rights does not met the definition because it changes the definition of marriage interracial marriage did not change the definition of marriage and this is why I said you can not compare race/nationality/ethnicity rights to sexuality rights.

Like I said,in trek I welcome everyone regardless of their faith and beliefs but if we are talking of rights, I believe the rights needs to be fair and proportionate to what falls under the rights and this applies to the characters rights in star trek as well who are homosexual and this is the topic of this thread.
This is still going off topic, but I can't let this pass without comment.
Persecution is persecution regardless of it's origin being race or orientation. Hilter was putting gays in concentration camps alongside Jews and other "undesirables" and gays were actually treated worse in the camps than anyone else. There are still countries that have lengthy prison sentences and even executions for being gay.
Many African American leaders, including the great Coretta Scott King have compared the civil rights struggles of gays to African Americans.
Of course interracical marriage redefined marriage, it just did it in a way that doesn't bother some people. Race was once seen to be only for people of the same race just as it is defined, in some places, as only between the opposite sex. The pain of people denied marriage for their orientation is the same pain that people denied marriage for their race. Our feelings are the same as straight people, which may surprise some people.
"Fair and proportionate" rights would be equal. If you don't believe in equality then at least be honest enough to admit it.
I hope to God that people in the 22nd, 23rd and 24th century of the real world will be beyond this kind of petty bigotry we have to deal with now, and at least we have Star Trek to show us a better way to be (even if they still have fallen short of their promise of equality thus far in representation). I despair that I won't live long enough to see bigotry die out. I don't think some people realize just how much hurt they spread with their casual bigotry.

You need to stop calling people bigots because they disagree with you. that is not right and that is not even the point of star trek and the point of this thread. this thred is called homosexual rights in star trek so things like the definition marriage and if it is a right to change the definition in relations to homosexual rights in trek as well will be discussed and people will have different views

there is also no solid proof anywhere that Hitler was putting gays in concentration camps. this is once again another hollywood mythology that has spread like wild fire to so that they can push their agenda on us.

the truth is that in the 1940s homosexuality was hidden and hardly talked about. So the reality there could have hardly been no gays put in concentration camps because most homosexuals were closeted by 99% in the 1940s.

Star Trek has been a champion of civl rights and sometimes it shows the horror that people faced to get equal rights. Remember that episode with Captain Sisko trying to make it as a black writer in the 1960s?

star trek has touched on world war 2 in a couple of episodes, However I have yet to see them cover this issues of gays been put in concentration camps.

I have also heard a myth that some blacks had white slaves during the days of slavery in usa. the reality is that when people think of holocust, it is about 6 millions jews being wiped out and when people think of slavery it is about a whole race being enslaved by another race. there is no solid proof anywhere of the other latter that Hollywood has pushed on people. I have yet to see the history channel talk about gays being put in concentration camps and the history channel has done great documentaries in world war 2.

It is great that gay people want homosexual rights in fiction like star trek and in the real world but it is also good to not go overboard with a history by trying to pass a myth as fact.

I find it horrific that many gays are killed for being gay but you know what? chrisitans are also slaughted in many countians for being Christians or for even holding a bible in public. there are Christians churches that are bombed daily with thousands of chritians killed. there are Christians who had also jailed and excutected when they choose not to return to the old faith.In many middle and african countries it is against the law to be a Christian. So where is your outrage over that as well?

In Hollywood if you want a career boost, you can come out as gay and get it. in Hollywood if you want your career to die, just say you are are bible believing Christian and no one will give you an acting job ever again.

This is why I think homosexual rights in trek is just as importance as faith freedom. if any Hollywood franchise can cover both, it is star trek.



There are some African afrirican leaders that have compared this issues but the majoirty of afirican americans do not. majority of afirican americans have said you can not compare civil rights to gay rights.in america gays have all the rights there is, what they do not have is to redefined the definition of marriage.a defination that has existed for thousands of years and has been the bedrock of our civilaztion.

Also interracial marriage never redefined marriage. what it did was strike down racism that stooped the definition of marriage. interracial marriage never changed the definition that marriage is a union between a man and a woman. gay marriage changes the definition of a man and a woman to a union of two people regardless of their sex.that is not the same thing. which is why I have never supported the rights for gays to get married and i will not support that right even in star trek because the marriage requirements says a marriage is a union between a man and a woman as husband (male)and wife (female). I will like to see star trek uphold that view if they go into a topic like homosexual rights in the trek universe.

the problem is that everyone is hurting because people are easily called prejudice and hateful when you choose to disagree with them.

lastly you really need to stop calling people bigots because they do not agree with you.

You have been calling me a bigot since two days and not once have i ever called you a Christian bigot because i disagree with you. I d not need to play the bigot card because I can have a real civil debate with people on such complex issue like homosexual rights in the trek universe.


people in the real world have spoken,the courts may strike down a lot of stuff but every time the american people vote on the issues. it always them voting to keep the definition of marriage as a man and a woman. star trek should be a reflection of that should they dicuss the debate of homosexual right in the trek universe but trek being part of Hollywood it is no secret which root they will take.




Star trek was about the human philosophy, such philosophy is what gives us our rights and if star trek was to be accurate, i am sure the issues of gays will be be accepted because overall all we humans should have tolerance regardless of our differences but in no way should star trek ever air an episode or a film where they have one rights trumple over another rights. we can all agree to disagree and trek should have that presented well.

Last edited by xavier; July 3 2014 at 01:54 PM.
xavier is offline