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Old February 22 2014, 12:43 PM   #1107
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Re: Janeway's Decision to Kill Tuvix

hux wrote: View Post
Again, these goal posts are he does exist (phew) but his existence is simplistic (like that of an animal) and therefore can be dismissed as less valid and less real. Seems to me that you’re coming around to the fact that he exists but you want his existence to be terminated without complications so he exists but only in the most basic manner
In what manner are you desperate to prove he exists? Physically he is just Neelix and Tuvok. Mentally he only SEEMS to perhaps have his own thoughts. It does not necessarily make it so. Im dismissing his survival desire which is the most basic animalistic function. He does not really exist, he never did. Two people have been forced together so he 'seems' different but in reality...he is not. He is just two people.

As I said, we have no clue what is actually going on in the head, what he knows, what he thinks, what he hears. All we know is he wants to live. Because being dematerialzed and split in half is likely to be a bit scary.

hux wrote: View Post
My position is....Tuvix did exist as an independent consciousness but not as an independent life form. Janeway’s actions pose questions about the nature of consciousness and rights but cannot be classed as murder because the physical matter of Tuvix was not actually destroyed (only the consciousness) No jury would convict (but some philosophers might.....and that’s enough for the question to hang over this episode and for there to be no definite right answer....i’m not asking you to change your view, just to accept that there may be some grey area here)
If the physical matter of Tuvix was not destroyed, then why can you not make the leap to see that his mental self was not destroyed either? I acknowledge that his mind is dependent on this fusion but EVERYTHING that it is composed of is simply Neelix and Tuvok. There is no third person, the way this 'third' being is expressing itself may SEEM like a third person but the only physical and mental matter it has belong to Tuvok and Neelix.

The joy of this argument, of course, and the beauty of the episode is how grey an area and how open to interpretation it
truly is.
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We must question the story logic of having an all-knowing, all-powerful God, who creates faulty Humans, and then blames them for his own mistakes. - Gene Roddenberry
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