Brutal Strudel wrote:
In Star Trek, when Nero has been defeated and the Narada crippled, Kirk offers assistance, just as he would in TOS. Nero, for obvious reasons, tells him to go fuck himself.
I have only seen the movie once, so my memory is flawed.
But the one thing that grew on my mind reading this discussion was this: Who won?
Kirk offered him a chance to live but obviously as a prisoner.
Nero didn't like this idea and rather wanted to die, thus replied in a fashion to Kirk that he knew would provoke Kirk to kill him.
Basically, the antagonist was in control of the "encounter" and manipulated the protagonist to do what Nero wanted.
Wouldn't this mean that Kirk lost because he allowed himself to be manipulated to do the thing Nero wanted?
The victory, IMHO, would have been Kirk replying "No, you bastard. You don't die, yet. You are coming with me!"