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Old January 8 2014, 07:58 PM   #334
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Location: Rhode Island, USA
Re: MLB Offseason 2013-2014

One more poke at the Ortiz discussion: does Frank Thomas getting an easy walk-in affect the discussion? Play 19 years, but pretty sparingly at 1B after the first few. He was, in reality, a DH that just occasionally played 1B. Less than 1/3rd of his games, if I'm doing the numbers right, and less than 6 full seasons using a full 162-game average. He was a DH.

Ortiz is more a 'pure' DH than a bad 1B that eventually migrated, but does Thomas getting in on the first try show that that's waivering a bit? Or does playing a BAD 1B for a small amount of your career get you DH immunity for the rest? Can't find any defensive metrics that show him as anything other than terrible in the field.

Anyway, just wanted to have that discussion, as a DH finally made it in, even if we're pretending he's not really a DH...

And yeah, that's obviously wrong, post-season counts. Small sample size, but when you are STELLAR in that sample, it can't hurt. Schilling's PS numbers are basically best ever there, he was just another pitcher in those games, and elevated on the big stage. Not that he was bad in the regular season, just epic when it counted. If you're not a walking baseball reference, GOOGLE works pretty well. First result is, in fact, , which is where we're getting these stats.

Pettite is interesting. Not sure about either way, at first glance. At the very least, his post-season stats don't force the issue like Schilling. 19-11 with a 3.82 ERA isn't quite the 11-2 Schilling has. And Schilling's numbers are only that bad because of Game 1 of the 2004 ALCS where as you recall he had a minor ankle issue. Had experimental surgery and came back to win in Game 6, though...

Anyway, back to Pettite. Long career, 256 and 153. Cy Young votes 5 times, got 2nd once but never won. Good stats, narrative around the 96-2000 Yankees. Maybe? I'm torn between saying yes and saying he's one of those borderline GOOD players that's not HOF-worthy. Only won 20 games twice. Was a good #2 or #3 pitcher for a lot of those years. As a Yankees fan, did you LIKE him, or did you ever think you were really seeing one of the best ever? What were the EPIC games? Tough to define, I guess. When Pedro was good, for example, you knew it even at the time, he's a 1st ballot guy, no questions. Just electric. With guys that have longevity, it's harder to sort out the great stats from the diluted counting stats at times.

Definitely not black and white yes or no, though. Post-season or not. He was a .626 win percentage guy in the regular season, and a .633 guy in the post season, so just more consistently good than epic or anything.

Sorta my problem with Biggio. Hall of Very Good, and got some of the magic milestones. But because he played for a million years. Nice player, you'd be happy to have him, but ever think you were seeing greatness? Or just pretty good for a long time? Fans want to dilute the HoF too much, kinda happy the voters are pricks and don't let as many in. Even if they screw it up at times, or cave over the years.
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Last edited by Scout101; January 8 2014 at 08:12 PM.
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