View Single Post
Old December 19 2013, 03:23 PM   #1079
CorporalCaptain
Vice Admiral
 
CorporalCaptain's Avatar
 
Location: Kentucky
Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

UFO wrote: View Post
Coach Comet wrote: View Post
UFO wrote: View Post
They were clearly exploiting prior Trek. Not necessarily in a nasty or unfair way I'll grant you, but that isn't strictly required. The attempt at cleverness involves in large part how similar the two scenes are and the original work was made by someone else. I agree that "rip-off" is a harsh sounding term. But I don't see a show stopper, even if we restrict ourselves to less "hep" and "with-it" definition sources.

However I am not sure why you object to the TheFreeDictionary meaning. A number of posters seem to accept that the term "rip-off" can be applied to stories etc. The main difficulty seems to be appreciating how it can be used within a franchise and that has been covered.
I thought that I explained clearly what I found objectionable about TheFreeDictionary definition, but I'll try again. The problem area is (I've omitted the part that isn't problematic):
Something [...] that is clearly imitative of or based on something else.
The problem is that that covers anything at all that is imitative. For example, it would, if taken literally at face value, require us to categorize all cover versions of a song as rip-offs. That's simply wrong.
Thanks for your efforts.
You're welcome.

It's just that it does seem like you are still going a little too far down the legal/corporate road than I feel is required. All three definitions I provided kind of assume the negative connotations that you are hankering after but in a less strict way. They seem less interested in courtrooms or who is infringed against and more in: "how do we think this work compares to that work and did they build on it, or just produce something 'clever' in an obvious way." etc.

As far as homages go, I tend to think they should be a brief show of respect for the original without actually taking it out to dinner and a movie. To me the reactor scene is the latter rather than the former. Maybe I have things wrong, but they are not just saying "thanks, that was great", they are actually making their own thing out of the original. To me that seems to being going too far to still be termed a homage.
I agree that there are too many elements borrowed from Spock's death scene for Kirk's death scene in STID to be just an homage. (When Lucas lifted and straightforwardly adapted those lines from The Dam Busters, it was evidently just those two lines back-to-back, and then on to other things.) That's why I've never called the STID scene just an homage, and why I agree with CorporalClegg that, in addition to being an homage, mirroring must have been the intent in its own right. I even proposed an explication of STID based on that assumption upthread, though of course the intended meaning may be much simpler or entirely different.

BigKrampus wrote: View Post
Coach Comet wrote: View Post
The problem is that that covers anything at all that is imitative.
So what?
I answered that question in the next two sentences, which you've omitted. For my example which illustrated my point, you substituted your own which doesn't. That makes me a sad panda.

Based on his last reply, I think that UFO, whom I was addressing (incidentally because he said he still had some issues with what I had said previously), understood what I was getting at; in fact, I think there had simply been some confusion regarding exactly what I was objecting to.

If you disagree with a specific instance of its usage, what not just say so and leave it that? It's not an allegation of mortal sin or criminality or eeeevil or something. You're not going to be able to rule out all use of the term just because you happen not to like it.
That's quite an insinuation about my motives. It's groundless speculation. And, why are you questioning why I didn't post this, that, or the other thing, instead of what I posted?

What need would there be to spend multiple thousands of words in mortal combat against a minor semantic choice?
Ditto.

Although I don't feel obliged to say why I posted this or that, more than simply beeping once to agree or twice to disagree is actually discussing (relevant because this is a discussion board), right?
__________________
John
CorporalCaptain is offline   Reply With Quote