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Old December 15 2013, 08:33 AM   #1046
Creepy Critter
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Re: Orci, Kurtzman and Lindelof should not Return.

MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
Kirk may have foiled the truther plot, but then you have the whole thing with Khan crashing into San Fransisco reflecting the 9/11 tragedy, with none of the characters watching in horror because the film is way too concerned with "we gotta get Khan". It just feels insensitive. It would have gone a long way just to show the characters look at the viewscreen for a minute in horror, not saying a word. This is where I give ST09 points for actually handling the destruction of Vulcan much more tastefully, and even that already worked as a 9/11 attack allegory.
I think that whether characters in the film reacted appropriately to the crash of the Vengeance and whether the film set the right tone for it are distinct issues from whether there should have been something akin to a truther subplot. I don't think it's unreasonable to find it implausible that there wasn't greater evidence of a starship having crashed into the city, rippling through the crowds and traffic seen on the way to and during the fistfight atop the air-truck. Even if they were only at best half-serious when doing so, some posters have raised the issue before that perhaps a depiction of emergency transporters in operation might have been appropriate. My suggestion is a verbal reference:
UHURA (at communications station, listening to earpiece): City reports that the emergency beaming protocol thankfully minimized casualties.
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Set Harth wrote: View Post
Theft is theft.
Set Harth wrote: View Post
What strawman?
All Star Trek products are part of the same franchise.

We know.

Again, I was never talking about companies or corporations. I was talking about individuals. An attempt to shift the discussion to a macro level where we don't see individuals anymore would be pointless, because:

Set Harth wrote:
I'm talking about a person copying or ripping off the work of another person.
But the situation that occurred in reality is not the one that you were attempting to discuss. The individuals who wrote STID did not write it outside a legal relationship with the corporation that owns the intellectual property of Star Trek. Further, I am not aware of, say, any WGA arbitration or any lawsuits filed over failure to assign credit where credit was due or failure to secure IP rights as necessary. The reality is that the word theft doesn't apply, full stop.

Instead of attempting to use inapplicable (and not to mention, loaded) language such as theft and rip-off, why not simply say that Kirk's death scene in STID was too much a repetition of Spock's death scene in TWOK for your own taste, score an inarguable point, be done with it, and move on?

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MakeshiftPython wrote: View Post
Let's just agree it was lazy and call it a day. Some love it, some hate it, everyone is happy or miserable.
North Pole Myk wrote: View Post
No, I can't agree that it was lazy. It's simply a tool used by writers.
Exactly. I can't agree that it was lazy, either.

Personally, I think that CorporalClegg made a totally compelling case that Kirk's death scene was an adaptation of Spock's death scene and that it was not lazy writing. Furthermore, in the absence of something like a request for arbitration or a lawsuit, I have no reason to suspect that it even rises to the level of something for which credit to the writers of TWOK should have been assigned.

I think that, if people would simply say that they don't like it and leave it at that, instead of attempting to find objective justifications for their opinions where none exist, then they would find that no one could argue with what they are saying. There's nothing wrong with not liking something, or finding it too this or too that for your own tastes; the problem that some of us are having is simply when people try to say that it is objectively X, when we don't think that it is objectively X.
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