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Old December 6 2013, 07:45 PM   #777
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Re: Do fans want the prime timeline back? Part 2: Poll edition.

Timewalker wrote: View Post
HaventGotALife wrote: View Post
King Daniel Into Darkness wrote: View Post
I can only assume that your version of "creatively viable" and mine differ. TMP was a rehash of "The Changeling". TNG remade a TOS story as early as episode 2. They basically kept the same formula they started with in 1987 with TNG throughout all that, all of Voyager and seasons 1 and 2 of Enterprise. Forehead alien planet of the week, beam down, get into trouble, get out of trouble and go home - and none of it really mattered because everything was back to how it started by the episode's end.
I find that extremely reductive. "First Contact" from TNG looks nothing like "The Apple" in TOS. Yes, they are exploring planets that have other lifeforms like us on it. But there's a host of episodes, to be as equally reductive, where they have to learn to communicate with something that doesn't have a mouth and bumpy foreheads. They just aren't talked about like the Borg episodes.

Voyager, by the end of its run, had done nothing to further the Maquis, got rid of Kes, neutered Neelix, had become a host of guest star appearances (Jonathan Frakes, Marina Sirtis, John De lancie, and Dwight Schultz) from TNG (esp. Sirtis and Schultz), and every two-parter, most especially the series finale, included the Borg. It didn't stand on its own two feet. It tried for 2 seasons and then mailed it in as a continuation of TNG, a bad season of TNG. That's bankrupt.

DS9, by the end of its run, had added layers to the Cardassians, Bajorans, Trills, and Klingons. They did whole character pieces about each of their characters and how they act in their society. They had a host of guest stars that were added during the run of the show, and only Marc Alamo had been a guest on TNG, although as a different character (but same race). The central themes were consistent throughout the show. They added the Dominion to the Star Trek vernacular. It was creative. That's what I want. And they managed to be creative in adding familiar elements. They abandoned the type of guest appearances that ruined Voyager (Q-Less comes to mind).

I figured the definition might need an example.
Yeah, DS9 was so creative that it imported a TNG character who had already turned TNG into a Klingon soap opera. DS9 was already bad enough with Smug, Perfect Jadzia Who Knows Everybody And Has Done Everything, but adding Worf to that... just made it worse, in my opinion. I was honestly dreading the day when they'd find a way to get Worf onto Voyager.
I know it's two different people, but complaining that TNG was a "soap opera" while complaining "nothing matters because they warped away" is being attacked from both sides.

I addressed Worf, although indirectly. Because you have to trash previous Star Trek to prove this was needed while seeing the world in black-and-white terms to not see the distinction. Why were you a fan of Star Trek? Did you start with '09?

And they managed to be creative in adding familiar elements. They abandoned the type of guest appearances that ruined Voyager (Q-Less comes to mind).
That was about Worf. And I will go into further detail now because I have been challenged on it. DS9 managed to oppress the Cardassians into the arms of the Dominion. It was logical to make it the Klingons that invaded (or the Bajorans who couldn't do it because they didn't have the muscle). It furthered the theme of oppression. "Violence breeds violence, oppression breeds retaliation." Worf, while added for ratings, had a story arc that saw him finally accept both aspects of his life so that when someone said "Do you hear the cry of the warrior?" he could say "Yeah, but I also like prune juice. Want me to prove it to you?" He was more comfortable with himself AROUND Klingons. If you don't care for him, I guess that doesn't matter.

They didn't make it into "The Worf Show." The show was strong enough that it could make him a part of the ensemble (that's about Seven of Nine).
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