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Old December 4 2013, 09:52 PM   #83
Fleet Captain
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Re: You know what really irks me about "Insurrection"?

Elf Spock wrote: View Post
Look I don't 'hate' NEM. It still a Star Trek movie. However I am a Star Trek fan and as such a cliche its my right and duty to nitpick the hell out of all the movies and series. I thought this movie would be an OK 2-parter in TNG. Not the worst and not the best of TNG.
I disagree. The movie, if you follow Star Trek, has high stakes. The graphics are light years ahead of anything in the series, including BOBW. If feels like a movie to me.

The best Trek poses a moral question. Are we still the people that annex land for the sake of the community? According to what I see on this site, even after the eminent domain controversy, we are. Star Trek's morality is, at its best, foresees the future. That's why DS9 is so poignant now in the wake of 9/11.

Elf Spock wrote: View Post
You can like the movie but is it really poignant?
Yes. As a man who has a chronic medical condition, seeing Geordi with his eyesight was emotional, impactful. Thinking about the uses of technology, and this movie helped to further that thought in my mind, and how it has put people out of a job, that was a powerful thought. Hearing Data describe his longing for understanding what it is like to be a child, watching Data act in the best interest of Starfleet, hearing Picard's voice when he talked about ending Data, all of those things stirred my emotions.

Have you ever watched a Dramedy? I feel this movie is one. While we see Picard dance the mambo, we also see his rather serious question moments later (his mind has been working as the scientist he is!) "How old are you?" You can appreciate the mixing of the two genres and too many people are looking for pure darkness and thinking that makes a better movie.

This movie is subtle. It speaks in whispers. The only person who doesn't, is F. Murray Abraham.

Elf Spock wrote: View Post
Do you really like wacky Data? I just thought Data is embarressing here and in GEN. It reduces his dignity as a character to act as a 'portable floatation' device IMO. Or perhaps I have no sense of humor.
I don't see him as wacky. The first episode Data stands in the middle of the bridge and recites the definition of "snoop." If you don't like that, you don't understand Data. Data isn't "wacky," he's not human. He still doesn't, with his emotions, know the subtle workings of human behavior.

Elf Spock wrote: View Post
On initial viewing I didn't consider the moral implications of the Baku vs Sona and Federation rights. I just took the movie at face value - that Picard was right everyone else was wrong but wondered why Picard would risk everything for the smug Baku. They just really irritated me. I refuse to believe its because he has the hots for Anji. But thats what it seemed at the time.

Also I agree the Baku have every right to keep the radiation rings whatever to themselves. You know as every millionaire has the right to keep their money and not donate it all to charity. That doesn't make them 'noble' though. That doesn't make them worthy of giving up your career for in case they give you a few titbits of immortality when you come to visit.
This isn't about the Ba'ku, this is about the Federation. From Picard's perspective, they are betraying everything that the Federation stands for. That is why he gives up the uniform. At face value, this movie will not knock your socks off. Think about it, watch it again, and the subtleties come alive.

Elf Spock wrote: View Post
I wished the film made me like the Baku. Then at least I would have wanted Picard to be on their side. Now I just think of them as the guys who banished their own children to die because they disobeyed them.
There was no other option. They tried to end the way the Ba'ku were living. They feel as disgusted by technological advancements as you or I feel about rape. The Son'a tried to end the Ba'ku before they were banished from the planet. Hate them all you want, don't like the movie, but I think they are more sympathetic than you realize. They have built a culture and they have to defend it. It wasn't about immortality, it's that their "young people" were trying to make the same mistakes they wish to avoid. They are not us. They look like us, but they are from another culture. We have to respect that.

Elf Spock wrote: View Post
And I understand that in Star Trek before Picard had no hesitation in moving the American Indians from their spiritual home on orders from the Admiralty. And this was their spiritual home not just any ordinary planet to them. Picard was prepared to move the Indians on just as they had been displaced in America centuries before. In the Baku case these were white settlers with a good looking leader. So is that the difference ? Or was it the prospect of immmortality? How did Picard change so much between the series and the movies when even more was at stake?
First, they are fit because of the rings. You are expecting immortal people to be fat and bald?

Go re-watch the episode (Journey's End, 7th season). He lobbies Nacheyev, pointing out that her orders violate his morality. He tries to get them to leave their land, he tries to stop the Cardassians from coming on the planet. Besides, if that were true, someone has to act exactly the same in similar situations? Maybe he learned from that mistake, views it as a mistake. When I was 16, I was a conservative. By the age of 23, I was a liberal. Would you say my character is "inconsistent," accusing me of being a racist as the reason for the transformation?
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