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Old November 25 2013, 10:46 PM   #136
Saito S
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Re: About the KHAN scream.

Re: Cumberbatch vs Montalban. I think we're at loggerheads, honestly. I actually agree about "My name is Khan" in STID; I'd forgotten about that, but it was a bit much. And really, while I liked STID overall and enjoyed it more than TWOK, I still think that making Cumberbatch's character someone else (maybe a follower of Khan instead?) would really have been better and more interesting overall. Buuuut, that's not how they wanted it to go.

And while we're on the subject of admitted flaws in STID: the first look at Khan, with the camera hiding him until the end of the conversation and then showing him with this serious look on his face and playing this REALLY dramatic, "oh look! LE VILLAIN!" music... that was just silly. Probably the most poorly executed scene in the whole damn film for my money. It was so completely over the top and unnecessary.

As for the torpedo thing: I dunno, I didn't have a problem with either the idea of trying to smuggle his people on them in the first place (vs Marcus having complete control over their fate, which was Khan's only alternative from what I recall; this was literally the only way he could find to get them away from Marcus), nor having Spock beam them aboard. He had no reason to think that they had evacuated all of his people from them and rearmed the warheads. Spock outmaneuvered him there.

Re: the shields - UFO pretty much says most of what I would have said to follow up on that. Raising the shields is as close as one can possibly get to a risk and consequence-free combat preparedness maneuver (and doesn't really have a direct equivalent in real-life military tactics and tech). And even if one buys Kirk knocking down Saavik when she tries to quote the reg, and Spock siding with Kirk instead of her on that, and even if we buy Kirk saying the situation is "damn peculiar" but still not raising shields - I think all of that is on shaky ground at best, but buying it for the sake of argument - going to yellow alert (which - according to the dialog and visuals immediately following Kirk giving the yellow alert order - apparently includes "energizing defense fields" and charging phasers!) but not raising shields, seeing the Reliant raise HERS but still not raising the shields... sorry, but I really can't get past that. It was as distracting a flub as just about any I've seen in any Trek ep or movie.

Last thing I'll say on this point, since it's something that's been brought up a few times and I'd like to clarify it. I have no problem whatsoever with the idea of Kirk making a mistake, even a serious one, or with the idea of him being "old and rusty", which of course is a major theme of the film as has been pointed out as well. It's the execution of the Reliant approach scene/shield thing itself that bothers me. I suppose that it's really a microcosm of TWOK as a whole for me: I see what they were going for, and have no problem with what they were going for, the execution just didn't work.

All of that said, as I mentioned at the top, I think we've reached the point where we are smashing opinions against one another regarding most of the above, and we're just going to go in circles if we keep discussing it. I'll shake hands and agree to disagree if you will.

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