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Old November 24 2013, 06:00 PM   #127
BigJake
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Re: About the KHAN scream.

Saito S wrote: View Post
Intentionally over-the-top/hammy depictions of characters is something I'm very picky about in my sci-fi. It could work in certain settings, with a certain flavor. Star Trek is not one of them.
Well, as you like. Ham seems to me to be kind of a part of the package in any film or show involving Shatner, and I actually don't mind it if the characters involved are legitimately larger-than-life in some way and it makes sense in context. Maybe we're defining "ham" differently.

That's a very strange thing to lock onto.
No it isn't. Part of the package with Khan is supposed to be that his intelligence makes him dangerous. This is why you were criticizing his errors in judgment in TWOK as supposedly undermining him.

What I'm saying is that for my money, STiD's attempt to sell us the "put people in torpedoes" plan (and everything that comes with it, including the subsequent 'sure, I'd love you to beam those explosive devices over to my ship, what could go wrong?' gambit) as the serious maneuvers of a master strategist is pretty laughable. (Some of his other actions are just inexplicably odd. I have yet to work out any answer to the "why does he go to Kronos?" question that makes sense, for instance.)

STID Khan felt intelligent and dangerous. He had a serious, threatening, always-one-step-ahead air about him in virtually every scene he was in
Cumberbatch's performance sells a kind of Die Hard-villain kind of drive and is mostly likeable on that level. (It's only when you notice that his actions make no sense that it rather falls apart.) Now, if you have trouble believing that a villain capable of what TWOK Khan shows himself to be capable of in his introduction "feels dangerous," I think that for many that would be a hard sell... but TWOK Khan is most certainly something different because Montalban isn't selling a Terminator-style badass. His Khan is also a tragic character, and resonates far more for a lot of people for that reason.

That said: ham? From Cumberbatch?
"My name... is... Khhhaann."

"You should have let... meeee... sleeeeeep..."

"After all... no ship should go down withouuuut heeerrr Caaaptain." Have to admit when I first heard this line I burst out laughing. In spirit it reminded me of nothing so much as the Emperor from Return of the Jedi.

Moments like that were made funnier because they were largely at odds with the rest of his performance. (Granted, I actually thought the second one was kinda fun... maybe because I was enjoying the call-out to Blade Runner that the scene represented.)

The shields thing is completely indefensible. . . Sure, Kirk has been relying on his judgement for some time, but he's generally not shown to be stupid.
Being overconfident and/or rusty and/or not fully appreciating the level or type of the threat are all different from being "stupid" and all sufficient explanations of the scene, and developments of Kirk's character. As someone else said, I know some people don't like it that Kirk makes a mistake, but that does not make the scene "inexplicable."
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Last edited by BigJake; November 24 2013 at 06:16 PM.
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