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Old November 1 2013, 02:46 AM   #412
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Re: Scaling the Excelsior Filming Model

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
^^ Beautiful side-by-side-comparison! Just made me realize how much more practical I think the Excelsior stern hangar is for storing shuttlecraft (they were never that tall).

And the circular structure ahead of it reminds me more than ever of the botanical section of the TMP Enterprise and most definitely of the Earth orbital complex in TMP.

Say, great observation there sir on the aft section - although it does make me wonder where the arboretum would go when they replaced that feature in her post-NX days? And yet, according to the stock footage reused for TNG, some vessels retained it.

And I do tend to agree the fantail hangar is a more "svelt" version of the TOS landing bay. It's interesting to note how shuttlebays two and three on the D appear even smaller, isn't it? Definitely fits an evolutionary pattern IMO

Egger wrote: View Post
Good comparison, Praetor. One thing though:
The alignment of the window rows on this Excelsior model's secondary hull are not quite right. Look at this:

The number of window rows there is the same, but there is a space between the 2. from the top and the 3. that is as high as between the 3. and the 5. row. So there should be another deck between them, meaning the secondary hull has one more deck than on the model you used.

There is also a higher space between the lowermost window row and the darker part of the hull.
Eureka sir, eureka. There are indeed some flaws with the Richter model, and thank you for pointing them out to me. (Still a perty model though, isn't it?)

With some revisiting, I arrive with this:

Fourteen decks in the engineering hull, with a half-deck below the uppermost deck (which I would assume to be related to support for the intermix chamber or something along those lines.) This, by the way is a use of Gus's hyper-accurate drawing from EAS. His windows aren't exactly perfect, but the rows are spot on. (And he added saucer edge gangways and secondary hull airlocks that weren't really on the model.)

I was able to confirm this alignment used the detailed model study of the Enterprise-B/Lakota model I linked to upthread:

And this one is slightly less reliable, but still tends to confirm the accuracy of this alignment:

So there it is. The secondary hull decks are well-defined by the window rows, and the saucer decks also derived from the few available windows. It so happens that it works out that the secondary hull decks can be 12 feet, and the saucer decks 9.5 feet, while maintaining the separate (and necessary) alignments for each deck set necessitated by the windows.

I haven't done the exact math yet as I want to work out the precise deck spacing on my own drawing before doing so, but I suspect we're going to see a ship quite close to the 622 meter figure. Making all decks 9.5 feet would make the ship smaller, but also possibly cause some issues in the saucer alignment. I will also examine this.

Mytran wrote: View Post
The only viewports we actually see in TOS (from the inside) are the two small squares ones in Conscience, and the slightly larger rectangular one from Gideon (which also features an external shutter, meaning it could be hidden from the outside most of the time). That being the case, we've no actual evidence that the "windows" on the TOS-E are anything of the sort. So, what are they? - massive sensor arrays perhaps? It would help to justify why there's so many of them on the Engineering hull (hardly the place for stargazing, IMO).
Not to pick a nit, but perhaps the engineering ports are always open because they're not in anyone's quarters, they're in work spaces? I would think people would care more about whether or not they were opened or closed in their quarters. (Then again, we never see a ton of them open on the saucer, do we?)

It is of course also entirely possible that there simply aren't that many windows on the ship, and most of them are reserved for work and public spaces, rather than making those crew persons who can't have a room with a view feel left out.

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
But how do we know that during events of "The Cage" the ceiling was not transparent?

WNMHGB takes place years after that so the non-transparent ceiling might be a later upgrade or modification.
Or, maybe the opacity could be changed by the flick of a switch? We nearly have such technology now.

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
I'd just love to believe that but fact remains that a) the housing perfectly matches the shape of a turbo lift car, b) is at the proper location where to expect the bridge turbo lift car (i.e. the stern), c) they even went into the hazzle of carving out the cylindrical shape (I would have peferred a plain extension ) and d) it's devoid of any structures or colors that could suggest something else.
Agreed... it fits too well to not be accurate, one need only rotate the bridge, sink it a bit into the superstructure and scale things accordingly to make it work.

When I say it like that, it almost sounds convoluted to make it work, doesn't it?

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
Egger beat me to that. If we were just to continue the separation lines of the clamshell doors (watched from within) we'd end up rather quickly at the tower segment above with the horizontal stern window (aft phaser control room?).

However, at an assumed length of 1,080' the two lateral rectangular windows would still be rather low to have a practical use for the observation corridor, assuming a bigger ship could remedy the situation.

Just as these - - are revealed to be windows in the close-up shots, so is the illuminated porthole near the docking ring of the TMP Enterprise.

I see more advantages in having that many windows than disadvantages. Especially the dark areas of the connecting dorsal will provide views like this:

Of course, in Kirk's temporary cabin on Engineering Deck 12 you'd like to have shutters - until you want to drive the captain crazy by having a planet's starlight reflection bother him all night long.

"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." - Q
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