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Old October 28 2013, 03:30 PM   #394
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Re: Scaling the Excelsior Filming Model

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
Probably the upper level with the torpedo storage? Looks like height wise both might fit in together.
D'oh, good call sir. Plus it gives room for the exhaust whatchamacallit at the back of the neck. It's been my general opinion that the torpedo room would not really have standard deck spacing at all, but I haven't tried lining up any drawings to confirm this yet.

Robert Comsol wrote: View Post
Praetor wrote: View Post
I then test-fit the above deck lineup into the TOS ship, and it fit quite well with only minimal tweaks. Doing some reverse math, we end up with secondary hull deck heights of about 15 feet... which doesn't seem completely unreasonable. Maybe there's just more space between floors and ceilings?
Looks like I'm hard pressed to scan my TOS engineering hull deck level draft to illustrate the issue.

E-Deck heights of 9-10 feet match best for the majority of TOS E-Hull exterior windows. Besides, we need those 16 engineering decks (according to TMoST) to have a Deck 14 wide enough to accomodate corridor footage shown in "Mudd's Women" and "Dagger of the Mind".

So, I actually discovered that I made an error in the above. I thought I saw deck lines in the saucer that were narrower than I had previously realized, but I don't think I did.

After my post last night, I decided to see what happened if I scaled the engineering decks to 12 feet (including the between-deck spaces.) I found that this resulted in an overall length for the refit very close to the official 305 meters. So, I decided to see how the saucer decks would line up, and surely enough, the saucer rim was exactly thick enough for two decks. I rescaled the saucer of the "Probertized" refit drawing, and things lined up pretty nicely. I then retroactively applied this to the TOS ship, and it was a pretty good fit there too. Then, I applied the same for the smaller Excelsior, and it was a better fit there too. (I was even able to use 12 foot engineering decks in the Excelsior, which I hadn't bothered to try before.)

I'll post some math and pretty pictures this evening. So Mr. Probert alignment isn't so different from what's established in the saucer as I had supposed.

Egger wrote: View Post
And even with the 289m version you could have 10 ft decks I think. So scaling it up to around 327m would add a little bit more space between the decks and doesn't look oversized. That's why I prefer this scale. Although I would like the ship larger, I just think it would create the problems I mentioned in earlier posts.

By the way, another old thread I really like regarding scaling of the TOS ship is this one:
Another take on the Original Enterprise... (this is page 28, scroll down a bit for a good cutaway view)

Concerning oversize, how do the windows on the refit-Constitution compare to those of the Excelsior on your last comparison chart?
I am right there with you about the details looking oversized. I will see if I can't try matching window sizes on the Excelsior model to the refit and/or Miranda this evening. It could be very interesting... or utterly disappointing.

Ok, my feelings about the Great (Scaling) Experiment are solidifying a bit now. We essentially have IMO three different scaling camps for the Enterprise family (the ships that use the same parts):

1) Decks extrapolated from TOS window rows, which result in a larger than generally accepted ship
2) Decks extrapolated from Mr. Probert's deck alignment (which match the refit window rows) which result in the generally accepted sizes

On the Excelsior front:
1) Decks extrapolated from window rows of the original model... a few more of them if we use the "Gens" damage on the Enterprise-B as gospel
2) Decks based on the official size, using Mr. Probert's refit alignments as references

One thing I hope we can all agree on is that the TMP/TNG corridor deck heights are about eight feet. That leaves what's in between to argue about.

Does anyone happen to know if any of the rooms that we'd consider standard height - quarters, sickbay, transporter room - have a ceiling height higher than 8 feet on either the TMP ship or the TNG ship? I would think the TNG sickbay would have a higher ceiling, at least. Possibly the transporter room, too. And even though I feel as if I've veered off a bit, I think I'm still in the Land of Relevance. After all, shouldn't Excelsior make sense next to her fellow ships of the fleet, and doesn't that involve understanding how those other ships are "really" put together?
"If you can't take a little bloody nose, maybe you ought to go back home and crawl under your bed. It's not safe out here. It's wondrous, with treasures to satiate desires both subtle and gross; but it's not for the timid." - Q
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