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Old October 27 2013, 10:06 PM   #125
grendelsbayne's Avatar
Location: Netherlands
Re: Was Sisko a Javert

mickmike wrote: View Post
the federation looses all credibility by providing support to a government that as you described has a history of genocide, bullying and oppression instead of supporting their own people.
Not everything is about credibility. Yes, the Maquis were screwed over and had every right to blame the Federation as much as the Cardassians. But that doesn't automatically mean that the Federation had any better options available to it at the time, nor that starfleet should be expected to overlook direct provocations that could start a new war.

the federation could have easily taken the cardassians on in an armed conflict. i mean they went to war with the klingons over cardassia only a couple of years after the treaty was signed.
This is not even remotely proven. The Klingon war was limited in scope and time period - not at all proof of how powerful starfleet was. It also took place years later - it's entirely possible the Federation was already spending those years beefing up Starfleet in preparation for a possible round 2 with Cardassia (and later in preparation for the Dominion).

And even if the colonists had moved, would that have been enough for the cardassians? given their history, probably not. the federation gave up a lot to satisfy a government who had no real intention of maintaining the peace.
That's entirely true. But that doesn't automatically mean it was the wrong thing to do.

mickmike wrote: View Post
I was talking about hypothetically if the colonists had moved when asked to do so by the federation, would the cardassians have been happy with that, or given their history would they have taken it as a sign of weakness and asked for more concessions.
Hypothetically, the treaty was already signed by this point. Endlessly demanding more concessions would've led straight back to war, the Federation would've instantly started backing the Maquis and everyone would be saying how great they were for it and how upright and moral they were, as proven by the fact that they gave the Cardassians every chance and only went back to all out war when they were left no other choice. And possibly also how sad it was that they were so weakened by fighting Cardassia that they allowed the Dominion to waltz right over top of them.

The territories were not contested until the treaty of 2370 which stipulated that each side would exchange worlds. The colony on dorvan v for example had been establish in 2350, 20 years before the treaty and at that time was part of federation territory. The federation gave it up.
The territories were not contested until the war. Wars always create contested territories - that's the point of war. What the treaty did was determine exactly what would be done with the contested territories in order to prevent further warfare.

The cardassians forced the creation of the maquis through their actions towards the colonists. The colonists were peaceful and were not doing anything until the cardassians began to target them.
And the Federation wasn't doing all that much to seriously take down the Maquis until the Maquis started attacking Federation ships and stealing Federation supplies - and risking an instant rekindling of the war by launching biogenic weapons on a planetary scale.

mickmike wrote: View Post
Even if the cardassians had not joined the dominion, or the founders sowed dissent between cardassia and the klingons there is a chance thay they may have fallen back on their old behaviour.
the cardassians clearly didn't give a shit about the peace treaty, yet the federation was bending over backwards to appease them.
Yep. Because war is a pretty crappy thing, and the Federation had had enough of it. It's not an ideal attitude necessarily, but it's certainly an understandable one. And no matter how many times people want to bring up the Czechoslovakia example, it still doesn't prove that the Cardassians really were planning to, or even capable of actually overrunning the Federation the way Hitler overran Europe.
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