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Old October 22 2013, 05:17 PM   #8
Jeyl's Avatar
Location: Asheville, NC
Re: Episode of the Week: 3x17 "Sins of the Father"

MacLeod wrote:
Sterotyping is quite common in film and TV, it's not exclusive to ST.
Mac, what was the point of that argument? Are you saying that because stereotyping exists in other forms of media that we shouldn't be bothered by it? That's Like saying we shouldn't be bothered sexists writing in stories because it happens a lot in media. Just because it's common doesn't mean it's not a problem.

jimbotron wrote: View Post
Jeyl, you didn't mention Star Trek III. That's where the start of the "modern" Klingon was. That's where the familiar usage of honor was first used. As Kruge is about to kill Valkris, he tells her "you will be remembered with honor." They seemed to be going for a feudal Japan-like Klingon, even referring to Kruge as a lord. RDM just took it a step further.
I didn't say this episode was the start of the TNG era Klingons, I said it was the episode that solidified it. As for Star Trek III, I'm not quite convinced this could even be looked at as such considering how her death was completely pointless and there is no honor in anything in what Kruge was doing. He just leaves the bridge and tells his bridge crew to feed his dog while he plans on stealing information about Genesis even if it means he has to murder innocents to do it.

And if you would like me to go into the movies, how about Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country? The big Star Trek story that doesn't depict Klingons as culturally obsessed about honor and ways of the warrior as seen in TNG. I think SFDebris is better at conveying this point.
"The Klingons shift later in TNG when it went from being great warriors, to being all about being a warrior to total cultural obsession over being a warrior. It got to be too much. They became space vikings and in my opinion, a stereotype. Here we see the opposite of that. These Klingons are not above physical violence. Even Gorkon looks like he might be able to use that tusk he has on his person as a weapon if he thinks it's necessary. But being a warrior doesn't confine them. They seem less like vikings and more like samurai, especially Christopher Plummer's General Chang who is a cultured warrior. In three minutes he has more depth to him than most Klingons later on would have in an entire episode. Chang himself also has such a memorable appearance with his shaved head (save for a pony tail) and that bolted on eye patch, yet he doesn't come across as a hostile enemy, he comes across as a deadly one."
- SFDebris
And this movie happened while TNG was running, so at least some writers were thinking outside the box.
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