Thread: The Son'a
View Single Post
Old October 7 2013, 11:51 AM   #79
Fleet Captain
Edit_XYZ's Avatar
Location: At star's end.
Re: The Son'a

grendelsbayne wrote: View Post
Edit_XYZ wrote: View Post
The Umbrella Corporation wrote: View Post
Surely just being in Federation territory doesn't make every planet in it under the control of the Federation. The Federation is not a military dictatorship, is it?

And surely after 300 years the Baku and Sona have some rights to their planet which should be recognised no matter how inconvenient?

I see to remember some episodes in TOS where the Federation wanted some dilithium or herbal medicines or strategic value from some planets but accepted it when they said No. Have things changed by the 24th century?
The movie specifically said it was a federation planet. Apparently, it was transferred from the romulans to the klingons to the federation (and the romulans had it from before the baku's arrival).
The baku are trespassers who came to the planet and then did everything they could to remain hidden. Due to being hidden, this will never give them adverse possession, regardless of how long they stay there.

For a comparison - you have a huge palace, but don't use it much. A trespasser comes there and intentionally stays hidden while using it.
Do you think this person can rightly claim any property right to your palace?
Do you actually think the society who doesn't recognise this trespasser any rights to your palace in these conditions must be a military dictatorship or oppressive? lol. I beg to differ.
The baku didn't do anything to remain hidden. They just lived there, for 300 years (longer than the federation has existed).
The baku did all they could to remain hidden - even said so in the movie.

If the Romulans or the Klingons claimed this planet, they clearly never, ever used it, making the palace in your analogy completely abandoned for several lifetimes, which means, yes, it pretty much is fair game for any squatter who shows up. Their claim is perfectly legitimate. More legitimate, than, for isntance, the Romulan claim to Remus.

In point of fact, pre-existing but unexercised land 'claims' are almost always nullified by simple possession.
Legally, possession nullifies unexcercised property only through the institution of 'adverse possession' (look it up, grendelsbayne). One of several conditions is that the possession is public, as opposed to hidden. And that this public, useful possession is exercised for a specific period, etc.

The baku acquired nothing by adverse possession. The planet is still federation property (and romulan and klingon before it - and before the baku settled it) regardless f how long the baku stayed hidden in their hole.

Australia was originally New Holland, but the Dutch never exercised their claim, so the British took it. The same for New Zealand. Prior to the British, French and Dutch explorations, international law and treaty stipulated that ALL undiscovered lands in the world belonged to Spain and Portugal.

And if you don't believe any of this applies, explain why the Federation colony on Cestus III still exists in the 24th century, despite it having been previously claimed, but never settled, by the Gorn.
Because the federation had the muscle to enforce their claim as superior to the gorn.
BTW, that's how the British took Australia and New Zeeland, etc. The Dutch simply had the common sense to recognise the british claim and renounce their own, as opposed to refusing to let go of their claim and starting a war with THE superpower of the day.

As for the baku: 600 people do not get to make their own laws and claim they have priority to the laws of the state they live in. Or do you think a neighborhood association does have such competency? lol.

Without any power to strongarm their claim, all the baku have is the alpha/beta recognised treaties/laws to appeal to. And these treaties/laws are clear - the planet is federation property - as EXPRESSLY said in the movie.

[...]Another problem here is the fact that the Federation doesn't even know up front that the Baku aren't native
Have you even watched the movie, grendelsbayne?
Or do you blatantly contradict it knowingly, because the movie does not support your claims in this thread?

BTW, the federation knew the baku were not native - as Dougherty even expressly said. Meaning - the prime directive is not applicable - again, as expressly said in the movie.
"Let truth and falsehood grapple ... Truth is strong" - John Milton

Last edited by Edit_XYZ; October 7 2013 at 12:04 PM.
Edit_XYZ is offline   Reply With Quote