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Old October 5 2013, 11:53 PM   #385
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Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

Sindatur wrote: View Post
grendelsbayne wrote: View Post
If the plan was detailed ahead of time, how could they know for sure it would be Kirk going after Khan and not someone else, considering that was a clear result of Pike's death - an unpredictable event? How could they even be sure that Kirk would actually survive the attack on the briefing room?
It's impossible for Marcus' plan not to have been set in motion before Nero showed up. How could he possibly have built Vengeance, in secret, in less than a year? And he clearly tells us he wanted Kirk in that seat, he helped Pike advocate for Kirk Captaining the Enterprise.
It would be interesting to see some quotes of this advocacy. I don't believe Pike supported Kirk becoming captain in either film, but I only saw STiD once. It would reduce my opinion of him if he did. Not that I believe he or Marcus should have been able to achieve that end, even if they had been irresponsible enough to have tried. Similarly didn't Marcus only get Kirk back into the captain's seat?

Of course Khan going on the run wasn't part of his plan, he lost control of him, no one plans to have their own head popped like a zit. His plan was to start a war with the Klingons, and to be prepared for it, which included having the Behemoth Vengeance available and have the right people in the right places, including Khan and/or the other Augments as well as "His" Starfleet personnel that he knew would be onboard and not question what was going on if things looked suspicious when he made the move to start the war.
Since Kirk is a loose canon, it doesn't seem like a good idea for Marcus to involve him in plan that required someone to follow orders (in a questionable situation).

grendelsbayne wrote: View Post
Closed Caption wrote: View Post
grendelsbayne wrote: View Post
If Khan's runner was completely outside Marcus' control - why would Khan ever choose *Qonos* as the best hiding place?
Simple. To try to trick Marcus into loading a ship up with the top secret torpedoes to go after him, thereby creating the best opportunity to get his people out of the clutches of Section 31. Marcus was salivating too much, from the opportunity to start his pet war, for him to realize how he was being played.
But the torpedoes did have live warheads. If Marcus fired them, Khan would just die with his people. And Khan couldn't know that Kirk would come and decide to take him prisoner instead of just killing him. If it weren't for kirk's entirely unplanned shuttle ride, Khan would simply be stuck wandering around some Klingon ruins.
And I believe Khan didn't know the torpedoes were the ones containing his crew until Kirk told him how many he had (or some such). So not part of Khan's plan (he thought his crew were already dead anyway didn't he, hence his bad mood?) and it didn't seem to make sense from Marcus' POV either.
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