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Old October 5 2013, 09:24 PM   #376
grendelsbayne
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Re: My Greivences of Nutrek. What makes me a hater...

Sindatur wrote: View Post
It's impossible for Marcus' plan not to have been set in motion before Nero showed up. How could he possibly have built Vengeance, in secret, in less than a year? And he clearly tells us he wanted Kirk in that seat, he helped Pike advocate for Kirk Captaining the Enterprise.
He may have been working towards something, but who says the Vengeance was built specifically with this plan in mind?

Of course Khan going on the run wasn't part of his plan, he lost control of him, no one plans to have their own head popped like a zit. His plan was to start a war with the Klingons, and to be prepared for it, which included having the Behemoth Vengeance available and have the right people in the right places, including Khan and/or the other Augments as well as "His" Starfleet personnel that he knew would be onboard and not question what was going on if things looked suspicious when he made the move to start the war.
If Khan's runner was completely outside Marcus' control - why would Khan ever choose *Qonos* as the best hiding place? A planet full of people who hate humans, and potentially hate augmented humans even more (considering the aftereffects of the ENT klingon augment virus are still being felt in this time period). And just incidentally, the one planet which provides Marcus with the perfect opportunity to start the war he's been itching for. If Khan is free, I'd think he wouldn't do anything to further Marcus' plans, out of spite if nothing else.

And if that whole thing wasn't planned, how did Marcus arrange for the Enterprise to be sabotaged on the fly when Kirk and Spock went straight back to the ship and took off for Klingon space?

Ovation wrote: View Post
grendelsbayne wrote: View Post
Marcus' scheme didn't even exist yet, at the end of ST09, did it? Section 31 hadn't even recovered the Botany Bay yet.
There is absolutely nothing to support this idea in either movie, while the second movie, short of having a character make a declarative, affirmative statement to confirm it, pretty much hinges on the overwhelming likelihood of Marcus having done just that--recovered the Botany Bay before the end of ST09.
Khan's description of his awakening outright said that Section 31 began aggresively searching space 'as a result of the destruction of Vulcan', leading to the discovery of the Botany bay.
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