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Old September 27 2013, 11:17 AM   #104
grendelsbayne's Avatar
Location: Netherlands
Cinema Geekly wrote: View Post
I don't know. TOS Kirk and movie Kirk did things that should have got him drummed out of the service multiple times but because he saves the Earth over and over again he gets a slap on the wrist at worst.

Star Trek III is a prime example of this. Even though Kirk was doing what we all knew was best he basically spat in the face of the Federation over the course of two movies. At the end of the day he saved Earth so they just bust him down a rank back to Captain (which is where he wanted to be in the first place).
Absolutely, but that's a completely different situation. You're talking about a captain who, at that point, has very successfully commanded the SF flagship for years, and who is already a living legend. And you're talking about leniency in punishment, not extreme generosity in rewards. It's always easy to make excuses for people who've saved your life, but that doesn't mean you automatically assume that their 1 great success is proof positive that you can trust them completely with the most important thing in your possession.

In ST09, Kirk is a not necessarily well liked cadet (it seems like Pike is the only person who sees anything in him at all) who, through breaking a lot of rules, happens to save Earth. Worth a commendation? Certainly. Worth a promotion? No doubt about it whatsoever. Worth instantly putting him in complete control of the most important starship in the fleet when he hasn't even graduated the academy yet? No. Who in their right mind would ever even think of doing that?

Secondly Kirk is a super hero if Batman is. Batman doesn't have super powers, he's just a guy....who saves the day ALL THE TIME. Kirk might not have powers or something but at the rate he saves the planet I'm pretty sure he counts.
Batman does have superpowers. He has all kinds of ridiculous weapons and armor *that no one else has access to*. A superhero stands fully apart from the world he defends, representing something extremely unique, often created as much by pure luck (like inheriting Wayne Enterprises) as by determination. Kirk is just a starship captain, just like any other starship captain. He went through Starfleet Academy and took all the same classes as every other starfleet officer. There is nothing whatsoever to differentiate him from Pike or April or Janeway except for his choices and his character. He becomes a legend because he is extremely successful, even saves a lot of lives (sometimes planets), but that doesn't make him a superhero, just an extremely successful starship captain. (Who incidentally wouldn't be half as successful as he was without his equally impressive crew)

All of which applies even moreso to Iron Man.

Nerys Myk wrote: View Post
Didn't Sreve Rogers go from recruit to Captain pretty much "overnight" in Captain America: The First Avenger? (In the comics he remained a Private)
Calling a man 'Captain America' in order to use him as a propaganda tool is hardly the same as putting him in charge of a battalion with no proof that he has any idea what he's doing. In fact, Tommy Lee Jones - the only military voice in the movie - writes Rogers off from the very beginning, and even after the big rescue (which is months, at least, possibly a year or more after he became Captain America), the only authority Cap is given is over a small team of soldiers brought together to infiltrate Hydra bases - which is, not coincidentally, exactly the one thing which Cap had undeniably proven himself capable of doing.

Awesome Possum wrote: View Post
CorporalClegg wrote: View Post
Kirk is absolutely a superhero. He always has been.
The man asked God why he didn't a starship and took a bolt of lightning like it was nothing. He's a superhero.
Arguing with energy beings would seem to qualify all Star trek captains and a good number of their crewmembers as well. Sisko punched Q, who might as well be a god as far as such things ever exist within Star Trek. Also, I don't think Kirk was the only star trek character to ever take some kind of energy blast and stay standing. Does that make all of them superheroes?

Last edited by M'Sharak; September 27 2013 at 05:21 PM. Reason: this merge of a Triple Post brought to you by the makers of MULTI-QUOTE™
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